Over the past couple days you may have noticed that our friendly @shinobu@ani.social had not been posting episode discussion threads. The reasons for this can be traced back to a breaking api change on an external website (see here, here, and here for more info). Well, thanks to the work of @chaorace@lemmy.sdf.org , our friendly neighborhood Shinobu is back (sans polls).
However, I thought this might be a good opportunity to gauge the community’s feelings about automated episode discussion posts. The fact of the matter is that our community at !anime@lemmy.ml is not as big or active as the anime subreddit that the bot was designed for. Most of Shinobu’s episode discussion threads spend their whole lives without ever receiving a single comment.
It makes me wonder if, because of the smaller size of our community, should Shinobu not make posts for shows that the people here aren’t really watching/commenting on? Perhaps Shinobu is limited to only posting threads for shows in which the threads have been active? At the moment, there is no automated way of enabling/disabling shows in this way, but it could likely be done manually with some sqlite database tinkering (I say as somebody not running/maintaining the bot).
I am not a mod or the maintainer of the bot, simply an interested party wanting to get others opinions that are active in this community.
I’m okay with bots posting discussion posts. But they should be popular anime to have more user engagement. Once we have more users then maybe we can move to slightly less popular shows.
On the one hand, if they’re not getting used then it may be better to get rid of them as they’ll clog up the community with threads people have no interest in.
On the other hand, how do we decide which ones to allow and which to filter out? If we only use shows that have previously prompted discussion then that prevents a show from being talked about if it only becomes more popular later on in a season.
One alternative is to only have a thread per show’s season. This would greatly reduce the amount of unused clutter in this community and could be a decent stopgap until this community attracts a large enough userbase to necessitate weekly threads. The only thing I don’t like about this idea is if a season runs a pretty long episode count, it may become harder to find in the list, and if someone starts an anime partway through its season then they may have to deal with spoilers if they come here to discuss it.
I see what you are saying. The one thread/season would definitely cause some spoiler issues unless there were some strict moderation. Your idea caused me to think of something like a pinned megathread with actively airing shows and their episode thread links in a table. Then, you could have the bot post the discussion threads to a separate, dedicated, bot-run community that houses all the automated threads. This would leave /c/anime more clutter-free, even if there is little activity on a lot of shows.
For example, the megathread could have something like this for the actively airing shows:
This is the first season to start after I moved to lemmy and I have been disappointed at how inconsistent the discussion posts have been, and have mostly stopped checking for them. I agree with others that discussion threads for every episode of every anime would become a lot of clutter, but I personally would not really engage if the discussion threads were preemptively trimmed down to just the most popular shows (I watch an episode of everything and I think it’s fun to talk about the weird quirks of the shows no one really likes).
I feel like a decent compromise would be to have the bot stop posting if no one is engaging with the posts (maybe 2 posts in a row with no/low engagement means the bot drops the show?), with a weekly miscellaneous thread for anything that got dropped or somehow missed or people working through their backlogs or whatever else
I know I can be a bit bad about posting instead of just lurking (i’m sure others can relate lol), but if the discussion threads were consistent and predictable I would be much more inclined to push myself to do my part by posting some thoughts even if they seem trivial, to try and get some discussion going
Personally speaking, I appreciate the automated posts as a standardized format for the posts to be made. Having consistent post titles makes searching for previous discussions easier and the posts (after some tweaking for lemmy vs. reddit) include a table to make looking at previous episode discussion threads very easy.
That being said, I sympathize with people that don’t want the community or their feed filled up with episode threads that don’t have any comments/activity in them. While the community remains small, it might be better to limit the number of shows that the bot is used for rather than let it rip on everything it finds. The anime subreddit can do that because of the larger userbase more actively voting popular things to the front page, but in this community, all posts spend some time in the front page.
The bot also definitely has some issues. There are some shows that it seems to not be able to pick up new episodes for. As an example this season, the bot missed making a thread for Tearmoon Empire (thanks @lvxferre@lemmy.ml for stepping in). Last season, I remember several shows that also never really got threads either. I am not a dev, so I can’t really dive too deeply to figure out why, but the problems are there.
The problem that I see is that Shinobu is playing two roles, both important but neither done flawlessly: gathering info for the series, and episode discussion threads. As such, I’m going to suggest a different approach:
Create a new comm called !anime_series@ani.social. The only user allowed to post/comment there should be the bot.
Once per series, the bot would create in !anime_series a thread containing: JP and EN names of the series, cover pic, short description, external links (MAL, Kitsu, etc.), and a reference code for that series (for example “56498” or “bokunopico”.
The bot would still create episode threads in !episode_discussion@ani.social, as it does now.
For each thread created in the !episode_discussion, the bot would add a new comment for the thread in !anime_series. That comment would contain Episode ## discussion: [!episode_discussion@ani.social](insert link here).
The bot would not post threads automatically in other comms. Instead, it would look for posts or comments pinging it, followed by the reference code and episode number. Like this: !shinobu@ani.social 56498 01.
When the bot finds those three things, it edits the relevant comment in the relevant !anime_series@ani.social thread, adding a link to the thread where it found it. Like this: Episode ## discussion: [!episode_discussion@ani.social](insert link here), [!anime@lemmy.ml](insert link here). The bot would also answer the post/comment pinging it, saying episode discussion added to the database! [link](insert link here) or similare.
I believe that this would be the best approach, because:
There’s a central repository for information about the series, inside Lemmy. If you want to look for new series to follow, or for a discussion about a specific episode, you go there and follow the links provided.
The most laborious part of creating disc threads is to gather external links. The bot would do it for us.
There’s at least one discussion thread about each episode, created automatically. It’s also in a centralised place, so nobody can complain “waah bot spam”. You’re only seeing bot content if you’re fine with it.
Even if you’re really sloppy creating a discussion thread elsewhere, as long as someone in it pings the bot correctly, people will find it.
You won’t see content for series that nobody is watching, unless you follow the bot comms.
I’m okay with a bot posting episodes for popular series (which are guaranteed to have comments), but the abundance of zero comment discussion posts benefits no one. I propose we limit shinobot to top 10-15-20 popular series per season (by MAL followers or we can vote before the season starts). Anything else can be posted manually (it’s very simple anyway - go to /r/anime and copy the source text for the episode discussion, replace or remove one /r/community link and optionally link past discussions).
You are not logged in. However you can subscribe from another Fediverse account, for example Lemmy or Mastodon. To do this, paste the following into the search field of your instance: !anime@lemmy.ml
Anime is hand-drawn and computer animation originating from Japan.
Anime; the one thing that gets us closer to each other and brings us together.
All spoilers must be tagged!
I’m okay with bots posting discussion posts. But they should be popular anime to have more user engagement. Once we have more users then maybe we can move to slightly less popular shows.
On the one hand, if they’re not getting used then it may be better to get rid of them as they’ll clog up the community with threads people have no interest in.
On the other hand, how do we decide which ones to allow and which to filter out? If we only use shows that have previously prompted discussion then that prevents a show from being talked about if it only becomes more popular later on in a season.
One alternative is to only have a thread per show’s season. This would greatly reduce the amount of unused clutter in this community and could be a decent stopgap until this community attracts a large enough userbase to necessitate weekly threads. The only thing I don’t like about this idea is if a season runs a pretty long episode count, it may become harder to find in the list, and if someone starts an anime partway through its season then they may have to deal with spoilers if they come here to discuss it.
I see what you are saying. The one thread/season would definitely cause some spoiler issues unless there were some strict moderation. Your idea caused me to think of something like a pinned megathread with actively airing shows and their episode thread links in a table. Then, you could have the bot post the discussion threads to a separate, dedicated, bot-run community that houses all the automated threads. This would leave /c/anime more clutter-free, even if there is little activity on a lot of shows.
For example, the megathread could have something like this for the actively airing shows:
Helck
Also, just found out that this table does not render correctly in Jerboa on mobile. So, that might be an issue for something like this.
This is the first season to start after I moved to lemmy and I have been disappointed at how inconsistent the discussion posts have been, and have mostly stopped checking for them. I agree with others that discussion threads for every episode of every anime would become a lot of clutter, but I personally would not really engage if the discussion threads were preemptively trimmed down to just the most popular shows (I watch an episode of everything and I think it’s fun to talk about the weird quirks of the shows no one really likes).
I feel like a decent compromise would be to have the bot stop posting if no one is engaging with the posts (maybe 2 posts in a row with no/low engagement means the bot drops the show?), with a weekly miscellaneous thread for anything that got dropped or somehow missed or people working through their backlogs or whatever else
I know I can be a bit bad about posting instead of just lurking (i’m sure others can relate lol), but if the discussion threads were consistent and predictable I would be much more inclined to push myself to do my part by posting some thoughts even if they seem trivial, to try and get some discussion going
Personally speaking, I appreciate the automated posts as a standardized format for the posts to be made. Having consistent post titles makes searching for previous discussions easier and the posts (after some tweaking for lemmy vs. reddit) include a table to make looking at previous episode discussion threads very easy.
That being said, I sympathize with people that don’t want the community or their feed filled up with episode threads that don’t have any comments/activity in them. While the community remains small, it might be better to limit the number of shows that the bot is used for rather than let it rip on everything it finds. The anime subreddit can do that because of the larger userbase more actively voting popular things to the front page, but in this community, all posts spend some time in the front page.
The bot also definitely has some issues. There are some shows that it seems to not be able to pick up new episodes for. As an example this season, the bot missed making a thread for Tearmoon Empire (thanks @lvxferre@lemmy.ml for stepping in). Last season, I remember several shows that also never really got threads either. I am not a dev, so I can’t really dive too deeply to figure out why, but the problems are there.
The problem that I see is that Shinobu is playing two roles, both important but neither done flawlessly: gathering info for the series, and episode discussion threads. As such, I’m going to suggest a different approach:
Episode ## discussion: [!episode_discussion@ani.social](insert link here).!shinobu@ani.social 56498 01.Episode ## discussion: [!episode_discussion@ani.social](insert link here), [!anime@lemmy.ml](insert link here). The bot would also answer the post/comment pinging it, sayingepisode discussion added to the database! [link](insert link here)or similare.I believe that this would be the best approach, because:
I’m okay with a bot posting episodes for popular series (which are guaranteed to have comments), but the abundance of zero comment discussion posts benefits no one. I propose we limit shinobot to top 10-15-20 popular series per season (by MAL followers or we can vote before the season starts). Anything else can be posted manually (it’s very simple anyway - go to /r/anime and copy the source text for the episode discussion, replace or remove one /r/community link and optionally link past discussions).
I kind of like the voting before a season idea!