can we create wind and solar panels just from wind and solar panels (('s energy))
PV (solar cells) : EROIs (Energy return on investment) between 8.7 and 34.2 were found
… meaning : yes ! … they create much more energy than the energy needed for their production.
it’s all in here (also for wind thingy😋)
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_return_on_investment
Nearly neutral isn’t neutral, and neutral still kills the planet. These stop gaps prolong a business division and profits at the expense of climate catastrophe.
In September 2022, Finnish company Q Power sold P2X Solutions a synthetic methane production unit to be delivered in 2024 in Harjavalta, Finland, next to its 20 MW green hydrogen production plant.
The more interesting approach is synmethanol, particularly via electrosynthesis. Only half of energy density of gasoline, and suitable for fuel cells, including DMFCs.
Direct methanol fuel cells (DMFCs) still have low power densities … so maybe we should look at molten carbonate fuel cells or simple heat engines ? Anyway, synmethanol looks great !
Haber-Bosch for fertilizer, Fischer-Tropsch for synfuel.
But, really, we need something with mild conditions and preferably something directly electrosynthesis driven. Large potential for improvement in both.
The Haber-Bosch approach to breaking the nitrogen triple bond takes a lot of energy in terms of high pressure and temperature which is not present in the product, hence wasted. Ammonia is a fertilizer either as gas or as ammonium nitrate, and too precious to burn.
Another random fact: half of the combustion enthalpy present in liquid hydrogen has been spent on its liquification.
The issue is more that we’re currently running out of extractable fossils (net energy peak for oil liquids is projected to peak as early as 2025 and the decline into nonextractability is rapid) so it’s a question of having liquid fuels and synthetic stock, at all.
What kind of life style we can expect where hydrocarbons and energy in general is expensive is an interesting question. See e.g. https://surplusenergyeconomics.wordpress.com/ for analysis of that.
He gives an estimate of $130 trillion usd for the global cost of energy transition with a link to the source
… I don’t understand how this estimate is made though.
Sorry, I haven’t started memorizing Fediverse handles yet. Tim Morgan measures ECoE in percent, and real GDP is GDP minus debt, or x units of debt produce a fraction of that in GDP. Plus ECoE accounting. His model is proprietary, so nobody exactly knows how it’s computed but he himself.
That IRENA model seems to link some large spreadsheets and notes on that page. No idea how complete that is.
As to investments necessary, some two decades ago I estimated we’d need some 3 TUSD/year, inflation-adjusted, for the next 40 years to transition. As a rough estimate that’s as good as any other guess, not facturing in extraction of progressively depleting resources.
You are not logged in. However you can subscribe from another Fediverse account, for example Lemmy or Mastodon. To do this, paste the following into the search field of your instance: !technology@lemmy.world
This is a most excellent place for technology news and articles.
@HubertManne
PV (solar cells) : EROIs (Energy return on investment) between 8.7 and 34.2 were found … meaning : yes ! … they create much more energy than the energy needed for their production.
it’s all in here (also for wind thingy😋) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_return_on_investment
Nearly neutral isn’t neutral, and neutral still kills the planet. These stop gaps prolong a business division and profits at the expense of climate catastrophe.
Electrofuel : great potential here I believe.
More here : https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electrofuel
The more interesting approach is synmethanol, particularly via electrosynthesis. Only half of energy density of gasoline, and suitable for fuel cells, including DMFCs.
Direct methanol fuel cells (DMFCs) still have low power densities … so maybe we should look at molten carbonate fuel cells or simple heat engines ? Anyway, synmethanol looks great !
deleted by creator
Haber-Bosch for fertilizer, Fischer-Tropsch for synfuel.
But, really, we need something with mild conditions and preferably something directly electrosynthesis driven. Large potential for improvement in both.
deleted by creator
The Haber-Bosch approach to breaking the nitrogen triple bond takes a lot of energy in terms of high pressure and temperature which is not present in the product, hence wasted. Ammonia is a fertilizer either as gas or as ammonium nitrate, and too precious to burn.
Another random fact: half of the combustion enthalpy present in liquid hydrogen has been spent on its liquification.
deleted by creator
deleted by creator
About one order of magnitude more expensive than the fossil kind.
Yes, of course. But climate change is also costly you know …
The issue is more that we’re currently running out of extractable fossils (net energy peak for oil liquids is projected to peak as early as 2025 and the decline into nonextractability is rapid) so it’s a question of having liquid fuels and synthetic stock, at all.
What kind of life style we can expect where hydrocarbons and energy in general is expensive is an interesting question. See e.g. https://surplusenergyeconomics.wordpress.com/ for analysis of that.
Yes I agree. I told you a few days ago here.
what I wrote was :
… about this :
https://surplusenergyeconomics.wordpress.com/2023/07/18/259-the-way-we-live-next/
Most interesting indeed.
So the cost of energy is a complex topic and this guy has studied many aspects of that.
Amongst other things he wrote :
Morgan, Tim (2013).Life After Growth. Petersfield, UK: Harriman House. ISBN 9780857193391He discusses the energy cost of energy or : Energy return on investment
He gives an estimate of $130 trillion usd for the global cost of energy transition with a link to the source … I don’t understand how this estimate is made though.
Sorry, I haven’t started memorizing Fediverse handles yet. Tim Morgan measures ECoE in percent, and real GDP is GDP minus debt, or x units of debt produce a fraction of that in GDP. Plus ECoE accounting. His model is proprietary, so nobody exactly knows how it’s computed but he himself.
That IRENA model seems to link some large spreadsheets and notes on that page. No idea how complete that is.
As to investments necessary, some two decades ago I estimated we’d need some 3 TUSD/year, inflation-adjusted, for the next 40 years to transition. As a rough estimate that’s as good as any other guess, not facturing in extraction of progressively depleting resources.
Links please 😌 …those links are hidden for me. (Maybe because I’m on mobile.)
(also don’t be sory it was 11 days ago)