[VIDÉO] Selon nos informations, le fondateur et PDG de la messagerie sécurisée Telegram a été interpellé ce samedi soir à l'aéroport du Bourget. Pavel Durov, franco-russe de 39 ans, était accompagné de son garde du corps et d'une femme. - INFO TF1/LCI : le fondateur et PDG de la messagerie Telegram interpellé en France (Police, justice et faits divers) - TF1 INFO
Unlike other chat services Telegram has a “social” aspect and search capabilities for locating public discussion channels.
Furthermore E2EE is optional and most people don’t turn it on and is certainly not on in public channels.
While techies are freaking out about an attack on encryption the articles I’ve read so far don’t mention anything about encryption or otherwise it seems that French police is concerned about moderation or attempts at moderation of those public channels, that Telegram specifically refuses to moderate.
Perhaps this will be an attack on encryption by stealth but at this point that’s not what it looks like.
As a personal anecdote when I installed Telegram a few years ago and searched for my city’s name the top 20 results where channels offering to sell you heroin - which I thought was so blatant as to be certain it was police sting operations - but who knows.
Telegram has always had the sketchiest people on it. I refuse to use it because it feels like I’m talking with human traffickers. Doesn’t surprise me he was arrested.
I’m a sex worker so I get a LOT of requests to use Telegram. Human trafficking is something I am directly exposed to and I am in danger of. The men who request to use Telegram make me feel in danger. So it doesn’t surprise me the owner of that app was arrested. My assumption comes from my experience.
This sub isn’t a telegram sub, it’s a technology one. I use technology.
E2E is just one part of the puzzle, you got to have a open source P2P or federated architecture as well, otherwise you have to trust a nebulous company or person intrinsically. People change and companies can be bought, but you will be stuck with their platform in order to contact your acquaintances, and changing that means loosing your contacts.
That is why the DMA is important. But you will be even better off just directly choosing a chat platform, where the users are in control.
Useless. Current allegations are related to the absence of moderation. Moderation of public content, in public channels or chats. As you can guess, end to end encryption does not protect public content.
But this is intentional. TG’s ToS forbids alternative clients with their own E2EE.
Also he’s the VK founder, which kills any idea of “trustworthy” immediately.
It’s part of TG’s business model, I think, something in the price list for governments. And the way they treat alternative clients in reality also hints that maybe backdoors are as well. Say, a new message format of the day (they add them really often) arrives in a new official Telegram version, somehow it’s nowhere to be seen in the channels and groupchats you’re in, but some day a DM arrives with harmless text and some code runs on your client machine.
I use Telegram, but trusting it would be asinine. Even trustworthy services can be abused, and TG doesn’t even pretend to be that.
I think he got arrested because happening to be in Baku for a couple weeks and then still be there at the same time with Putin-Aliyev meeting, and their agreements apparently having intersections with Durov’s activity, is openly weird.
The idea was fine, until it spread to normies which don’t understand that “proprietary software” means a whole city or factory which they won’t be able to study and understand in 10 years, while “free and open source software” means the same, but with a map. And that in the latter case there is at least a category of interested people who’ll look for traps there, and it’s built by such people, while in the former it’s all commercial company’s property.
And that TG desktop’s sources being open doesn’t mean that there’s a confirmed lack of traps.
People severely underestimate the complexity of what they use. Maybe they just shouldn’t, if valuing privacy.
I really think there’s a niche for some “luddite machines” running Forth with an operating system a normie can grasp.
Or we are going to have something worse than most examples of anti-utopia I’ve read\seen.
Looks like France is enforcing chat control 2.0 a bit prematurely.
The EU council is meeting to discuss it again on October 10. A new vote is likely in mid-December. Many parties and countries have turned their coat to support the proposal.
I have not followed this at all. Seems okay at face value. Is that the point, that “protect the kids” a is pretext to creep towards eventual screening of everything?
The meme says the big internet companies are already doing this. Isn’t it a legit problem that this sort of harmful child sexual abuse material just moves around the internet like whack-a-mole?
The Democratic nations of the world have all gone to Telegram and begged for help to address human trafficking, to address terrorism, to literally prevent wars, and they are told to fuck off. Seems criminal to me.
I think you got the point. Criminals use the same services as the rest of us. CSAM is being used as pretext to outlaw or bypass end-to-end encryption.
It’s a noble cause, but it puts all of us in a vulnerable position. As post-communist countries know from past experience, once these measures are in place the next government will use it for surveillance of all kind when it’s their turn.
Yes, I know. If you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to fear. I’m not doing anything illegal at the toilet, but I still prefer to keep the door closed - even if I’m home alone.
Chat control 1.0 has been voluntarily inplemented by big platforms, but it has not been fruitful. Lots of false positives and not enough resources to look at the true positives. The delegates preparing this have demonstrated poor technical understanding.
Whistleblowers won’t have confidence in anonymity. A journalist asked the author (Ylva Johansson) of the proposal if he, as a journalist, would still be able to receive tips from whistleblowers with secrecy. She stumbled ln her answer and said that CSAM should be illegal.
Police and officials are of course exempt from chat control 2.0. Secrecy for me, but not for thee.
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This is a most excellent place for technology news and articles.
Unlike other chat services Telegram has a “social” aspect and search capabilities for locating public discussion channels.
Furthermore E2EE is optional and most people don’t turn it on and is certainly not on in public channels.
While techies are freaking out about an attack on encryption the articles I’ve read so far don’t mention anything about encryption or otherwise it seems that French police is concerned about moderation or attempts at moderation of those public channels, that Telegram specifically refuses to moderate.
Perhaps this will be an attack on encryption by stealth but at this point that’s not what it looks like.
As a personal anecdote when I installed Telegram a few years ago and searched for my city’s name the top 20 results where channels offering to sell you heroin - which I thought was so blatant as to be certain it was police sting operations - but who knows.
That’s the good part. I hope something else takes the niche.
But it being very insecure and positioned as secure is bad.
Telegram has always had the sketchiest people on it. I refuse to use it because it feels like I’m talking with human traffickers. Doesn’t surprise me he was arrested.
I, too, prefer spending my time on subs related to things I neither own, used nor enjoy!
So never used the app, but flat out make that assumption. Check. lol
I’m a sex worker so I get a LOT of requests to use Telegram. Human trafficking is something I am directly exposed to and I am in danger of. The men who request to use Telegram make me feel in danger. So it doesn’t surprise me the owner of that app was arrested. My assumption comes from my experience.
This sub isn’t a telegram sub, it’s a technology one. I use technology.
What crimes did he personally commit?
This shit is why end to end encryption is so important.
All platforms, no matter how trustworthy, can be corrupted. No e2e, no privacy.
E2E is just one part of the puzzle, you got to have a open source P2P or federated architecture as well, otherwise you have to trust a nebulous company or person intrinsically. People change and companies can be bought, but you will be stuck with their platform in order to contact your acquaintances, and changing that means loosing your contacts.
That is why the DMA is important. But you will be even better off just directly choosing a chat platform, where the users are in control.
Useless. Current allegations are related to the absence of moderation. Moderation of public content, in public channels or chats. As you can guess, end to end encryption does not protect public content.
But this is intentional. TG’s ToS forbids alternative clients with their own E2EE.
Also he’s the VK founder, which kills any idea of “trustworthy” immediately.
It’s part of TG’s business model, I think, something in the price list for governments. And the way they treat alternative clients in reality also hints that maybe backdoors are as well. Say, a new message format of the day (they add them really often) arrives in a new official Telegram version, somehow it’s nowhere to be seen in the channels and groupchats you’re in, but some day a DM arrives with harmless text and some code runs on your client machine.
I use Telegram, but trusting it would be asinine. Even trustworthy services can be abused, and TG doesn’t even pretend to be that.
I think he got arrested because happening to be in Baku for a couple weeks and then still be there at the same time with Putin-Aliyev meeting, and their agreements apparently having intersections with Durov’s activity, is openly weird.
Reminds me of the Anom phone. E2E encryption, but the whole thing was run by law enforcement.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Trojan_Shield
Well, yes.
The idea was fine, until it spread to normies which don’t understand that “proprietary software” means a whole city or factory which they won’t be able to study and understand in 10 years, while “free and open source software” means the same, but with a map. And that in the latter case there is at least a category of interested people who’ll look for traps there, and it’s built by such people, while in the former it’s all commercial company’s property.
And that TG desktop’s sources being open doesn’t mean that there’s a confirmed lack of traps.
People severely underestimate the complexity of what they use. Maybe they just shouldn’t, if valuing privacy.
I really think there’s a niche for some “luddite machines” running Forth with an operating system a normie can grasp.
Or we are going to have something worse than most examples of anti-utopia I’ve read\seen.
Looks like France is enforcing chat control 2.0 a bit prematurely.
The EU council is meeting to discuss it again on October 10. A new vote is likely in mid-December. Many parties and countries have turned their coat to support the proposal.
The fight is not over.
I have not followed this at all. Seems okay at face value. Is that the point, that “protect the kids” a is pretext to creep towards eventual screening of everything?
The meme says the big internet companies are already doing this. Isn’t it a legit problem that this sort of harmful child sexual abuse material just moves around the internet like whack-a-mole?
The Democratic nations of the world have all gone to Telegram and begged for help to address human trafficking, to address terrorism, to literally prevent wars, and they are told to fuck off. Seems criminal to me.
I think you got the point. Criminals use the same services as the rest of us. CSAM is being used as pretext to outlaw or bypass end-to-end encryption.
It’s a noble cause, but it puts all of us in a vulnerable position. As post-communist countries know from past experience, once these measures are in place the next government will use it for surveillance of all kind when it’s their turn.
Yes, I know. If you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to fear. I’m not doing anything illegal at the toilet, but I still prefer to keep the door closed - even if I’m home alone.
Chat control 1.0 has been voluntarily inplemented by big platforms, but it has not been fruitful. Lots of false positives and not enough resources to look at the true positives. The delegates preparing this have demonstrated poor technical understanding.
Whistleblowers won’t have confidence in anonymity. A journalist asked the author (Ylva Johansson) of the proposal if he, as a journalist, would still be able to receive tips from whistleblowers with secrecy. She stumbled ln her answer and said that CSAM should be illegal.
Police and officials are of course exempt from chat control 2.0. Secrecy for me, but not for thee. . .