Tesla is recalling more than 27,000 Cybertrucks because the rearview camera image may not activate immediately after shifting into reverse, the fifth recall for the vehicle since it went on sale late last year
Are you suggesting that they get sent on route with no drivers in them and have the risk of running over pedestrians and cyclists on the way back to the factory?
I see Cybertrucks all the time. Everything about it is so ridiculous that I am genuinely embarrassed for the driver. I think it is the scale. If it was the size of a Hyundai Santa Cruz, the aesthetic might work…maybe. It just looks silly, gawdy, unfinished, and cheap.
You know, I want this to be 100% true, but it’s not.
I’ve been in software development for over a decade and while the managers are definitely high up there on the list of causing problems, I’ve also worked with enough shitty developers that don’t care enough. Then not everyone provides the same level of code review, some people are pretty bad at it and just rubber stamp things, and then a problem gets through.
Kind of but it’s not fair to put it all on the manager. Multiple people decided to hire the person. Somebody else approved that code review. People approved the technical design. Why didn’t the tech lead raise concerns with the manager about someone’s under-performance, etc. it’s unfair to just put all blame on the manager.
The idea of extreme ownership is about not saying “not my problem I won’t do anything” or blaming your reports. It’s about saying I can and should do anything and everything in my ability to fix problems.
Man I wish we had QAs still at my Mega Corp. They removed the role and saddled development with that responsibility (along with getting rid our our business analysts and putting that also on the engineer’s responsibility list).
Maybe over an extended period of time, but that’s not something people get fired for right away. Also bugs are a fact of life in software, and while some developers may ship more bugs than others, work still needs to get done, and it’s often better to try and train and improve an existing employee than fire them too soon.
I don’t think y’all understand. Software is never done, it just becomes abandoned. You have been a “tester” for every piece of software you’ve ever used. And that’s a good thing, because the alternative is you get stuck with whatever the first version is. No one wants dead software.
So an optional update rather than one you have to do because of a recall, the thing we’re talking about? Because otherwise this seems like a “technically” sort of gotcha.
On the one hand I agree, but also just because it can be fixed over the air doesn’t mean it’s not a major problem.
Plus imagine if a car manufacturer put VERY shitty software into their cars. If a manufacturer has 100 recalls a year, I want to know why. If they have 1, I want to know why.
Just because they are more easily fixed, doesn’t mean the recall isn’t important.
The Cybertruck has no rear view mirror when the back cover is down.
So any reversing requires the use of the backup camera.
The car also accelerates really fast, and weighs 7,000 pounds.
It’s also an $80,000+ car that was preordered by a lot of people without test driving it. So it’s primary driver is someone who makes risky and impulsive decisions.
So a really fast, heavy car that can’t see behind it without a reverse camera, driven by impulsive people makes me think the reverse camera should definitely come up really fast.
I’ve had software recalls for Toyotas and Hondas, both of which involved physical recall paperwork and required me to visit a dealer to install the new software.
Just because a software recall can be remedied over the air it doesn’t make it any less of a recall. As others have said, there’s a legal definition to a recall. They are issued by the NHTSA and require specific legal responses from the manufacturer.
Just dropping a link to the relevant, most recent upload from Some More News aka Cody’s Showdy. TL;DW: the cyber truck is an oversized, overpriced, unreliable, terrible design that’s dangerous to everybody in and around it.
You know, in some ways, I appreciate Musk. He has gone out of his way to demonstrate, for all to see, how billionaire parasites get to fail upward no matter how irredeemably incompetent and vile they happen to be.
Scumwads like gates and Bezos hides it all behind walls of pr propaganda, but not Musk.
Okay… so I knew this would be posted here when I saw it, and I knew there’d be a circlejerk of people dumping on Tesla/Elon because oh no a recall! One that can even be fixed with software.
How many of these other recalls did you see in the past few weeks though since Sept 18th? How many of these landed on the technology sub at that? These are all also EVs (with 1 PHEV)
Do you know how many of those that you linked have had multiple recalls on them? Clearly some are more significant than a malfunctioning backup camera, but one of the reasons the cyber truck story has more bagging on it is because the number of recalls. It’s a larger indicator, imo, or a poorly made product where the others may be one missed QA or engineering issue, not systemic issues.
Tesla started doing Cybertrucks in late 2023 though, so in that same time frame it’s 4 for ID4, and 8 for all of 2023/2024 (Edit: and the initial start of ID4 in 2021 had 4, and then 6 in 2022)
The site doesn’t have BYD, and while the site has jeep, I can’t seem to find the specific PHEV variant as nothing shows in 2024,but the Cherokee has 4 in 2023
As a second note to my main post - I was tracking these since the VW recall because I read awhile ago that recalls happen in clusters, and someone did a paper on it once (and i actually found the paper back then to confirm). When a company is working through a recall and knows there might be an issue, they’ll often hold onto it for awhile if they can (there’s probably some statutory limit) and wait for someone else to announce a recall. The person who announces the first recall in a cluster will often get more headlines/news and a greater impact on their stock.
I thought that was interesting when I read it last time and started keeping track on my VW post on the electric vehicles community when I saw the VW one which was the first I’d seen for EVs in awhile and wanted to see how many we’d get clustered together. It’s still going with this new CyberTruck one, but I’m not 100% sure that VW was the first.
My new Hyundai did this, sorta, and it also had to be recalled. Shifting into reverse would immediately display the rear view camera (good) but then about 25% of the time it would flash a dialogue box on top of the display with instructions on how to operate the display (bad). You could select “Dismiss” or “Don’t Show This Again”. Selecting “Don’t show This Again” did nothing (worse). With the dialog present you could not see the rear view camera display and if you are one of many drivers with muscle memory, the car was already rolling backwards when you realize you cannot see (unacceptable).
Elon sucks and I would never buy a Tesla but just adding this as a reference point that software in cars generally sucks.
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At this rate, they are better off just scraping the Cybertruck and issue refunds to everyone who was stupid enough to buy one.
or build in a return-to-factory-by-yourself feature into them.
Are you suggesting that they get sent on route with no drivers in them and have the risk of running over pedestrians and cyclists on the way back to the factory?
I see Cybertrucks all the time. Everything about it is so ridiculous that I am genuinely embarrassed for the driver. I think it is the scale. If it was the size of a Hyundai Santa Cruz, the aesthetic might work…maybe. It just looks silly, gawdy, unfinished, and cheap.
Tesla
engineersmanagers treating it like software. “Ship it and we can patch it in production.”You know it’s never the engineers and always the managers even with software, right?
You know, I want this to be 100% true, but it’s not.
I’ve been in software development for over a decade and while the managers are definitely high up there on the list of causing problems, I’ve also worked with enough shitty developers that don’t care enough. Then not everyone provides the same level of code review, some people are pretty bad at it and just rubber stamp things, and then a problem gets through.
Isn’t this t the manager’s fault that those shitty developers are there as well though?
Kind of but it’s not fair to put it all on the manager. Multiple people decided to hire the person. Somebody else approved that code review. People approved the technical design. Why didn’t the tech lead raise concerns with the manager about someone’s under-performance, etc. it’s unfair to just put all blame on the manager.
The idea of extreme ownership is about not saying “not my problem I won’t do anything” or blaming your reports. It’s about saying I can and should do anything and everything in my ability to fix problems.
In theory a decent QA team will catch things being done by shitty developers. If your dev and QA is shit, management is shit for letting it happen.
Man I wish we had QAs still at my Mega Corp. They removed the role and saddled development with that responsibility (along with getting rid our our business analysts and putting that also on the engineer’s responsibility list).
if they expect you to do a consultant’s work, they should pay you a consultant rate
Maybe over an extended period of time, but that’s not something people get fired for right away. Also bugs are a fact of life in software, and while some developers may ship more bugs than others, work still needs to get done, and it’s often better to try and train and improve an existing employee than fire them too soon.
Ah you speak the truth. Fixed.
Oh yeah, here’s Some More News on that.
You can tell Elon is a genius because he gets people to pay to do prototype testing for him.
Software that never gets updated isn’t a good thing. Even the Voyager probes still get software updates.
lol. The guy you were responding to thought you were agreeing with home with this meme.
I don’t think y’all understand. Software is never done, it just becomes abandoned. You have been a “tester” for every piece of software you’ve ever used. And that’s a good thing, because the alternative is you get stuck with whatever the first version is. No one wants dead software.
exactly.
I’ve never owned a car that needed regular software updates. Have you?
Are you sure? There’s a ton of them that do. Unless you have an older vehicle.
I have a 2016 Prius. I’ve never needed to download a software update. Somehow Toyota could handle making a hybrid without it being necessary.
That doesn’t necessarily mean that there isn’t an update.
https://www.toyota.com/firmware-updates/updates
So an optional update rather than one you have to do because of a recall, the thing we’re talking about? Because otherwise this seems like a “technically” sort of gotcha.
Tesla? Making shoddy vehicles?
shockedpicachu.jpeg
We gotta stop calling software updates recalls. Yeah I get that it’s fun to bash on the Cybertruck but this isn’t really that interesting.
Now that sticky accelerator pedal… yikes.
On the one hand I agree, but also just because it can be fixed over the air doesn’t mean it’s not a major problem.
Plus imagine if a car manufacturer put VERY shitty software into their cars. If a manufacturer has 100 recalls a year, I want to know why. If they have 1, I want to know why.
Just because they are more easily fixed, doesn’t mean the recall isn’t important.
Yeah… But these are multi-ton vehicles and when they crash people die. Unlike when your computer crashes.
I don’t think “the backup camera is a little slow to turn on” is the smoking gun you are looking for though.
The Cybertruck has no rear view mirror when the back cover is down.
So any reversing requires the use of the backup camera.
The car also accelerates really fast, and weighs 7,000 pounds.
It’s also an $80,000+ car that was preordered by a lot of people without test driving it. So it’s primary driver is someone who makes risky and impulsive decisions.
So a really fast, heavy car that can’t see behind it without a reverse camera, driven by impulsive people makes me think the reverse camera should definitely come up really fast.
I’ve had software recalls for Toyotas and Hondas, both of which involved physical recall paperwork and required me to visit a dealer to install the new software.
Just because a software recall can be remedied over the air it doesn’t make it any less of a recall. As others have said, there’s a legal definition to a recall. They are issued by the NHTSA and require specific legal responses from the manufacturer.
Just dropping a link to the relevant, most recent upload from Some More News aka Cody’s Showdy. TL;DW: the cyber truck is an oversized, overpriced, unreliable, terrible design that’s dangerous to everybody in and around it.
Thanks. I’m glad someone did it. I was going to.
You know, in some ways, I appreciate Musk. He has gone out of his way to demonstrate, for all to see, how billionaire parasites get to fail upward no matter how irredeemably incompetent and vile they happen to be.
Scumwads like gates and Bezos hides it all behind walls of pr propaganda, but not Musk.
I wonder what a cyberguillotine would look like.
Okay… so I knew this would be posted here when I saw it, and I knew there’d be a circlejerk of people dumping on Tesla/Elon because oh no a recall! One that can even be fixed with software.
How many of these other recalls did you see in the past few weeks though since Sept 18th? How many of these landed on the technology sub at that? These are all also EVs (with 1 PHEV)
VW (100k) - https://electrek.co/2024/09/18/volkswagen-halt-us-id-4-production-100k-vehicle-recall/
-Door handles leaking causing electrical problem, stop production until 2025
KIA (12.4k)- https://electrek.co/2024/09/24/kia-recall-12400-ev9-suvs-faulty-remote-parking-assist/
-Remote parking systems might not stop the car.
Jeep [PHEV] (194k) - https://apnews.com/article/jeep-recall-park-outdoors-fire-risk-d201d4a90b271da96724f77ec034e459
-Battery Fire Risk - STOP CHARGE AND PARK OUTSIDE.
BYD (96.7k) - https://cnevpost.com/2024/09/29/byd-recalls-evs-fire-risk/
-Fire Risk - Bad capacitor on PCB (not a battery specific issue)
Do you know how many of those that you linked have had multiple recalls on them? Clearly some are more significant than a malfunctioning backup camera, but one of the reasons the cyber truck story has more bagging on it is because the number of recalls. It’s a larger indicator, imo, or a poorly made product where the others may be one missed QA or engineering issue, not systemic issues.
Well, the ID4 has had 18 since 2021.
Tesla started doing Cybertrucks in late 2023 though, so in that same time frame it’s 4 for ID4, and 8 for all of 2023/2024 (Edit: and the initial start of ID4 in 2021 had 4, and then 6 in 2022)
https://www.cars.com/research/volkswagen-id.4/recalls/?page=1
The EV9 has had 4, all in 2024.
https://www.cars.com/research/kia-ev9/recalls/
The site doesn’t have BYD, and while the site has jeep, I can’t seem to find the specific PHEV variant as nothing shows in 2024,but the Cherokee has 4 in 2023
As a second note to my main post - I was tracking these since the VW recall because I read awhile ago that recalls happen in clusters, and someone did a paper on it once (and i actually found the paper back then to confirm). When a company is working through a recall and knows there might be an issue, they’ll often hold onto it for awhile if they can (there’s probably some statutory limit) and wait for someone else to announce a recall. The person who announces the first recall in a cluster will often get more headlines/news and a greater impact on their stock.
I thought that was interesting when I read it last time and started keeping track on my VW post on the electric vehicles community when I saw the VW one which was the first I’d seen for EVs in awhile and wanted to see how many we’d get clustered together. It’s still going with this new CyberTruck one, but I’m not 100% sure that VW was the first.
deleted by creator
design shoulda gone into the circular filing system at the beginning
My new Hyundai did this, sorta, and it also had to be recalled. Shifting into reverse would immediately display the rear view camera (good) but then about 25% of the time it would flash a dialogue box on top of the display with instructions on how to operate the display (bad). You could select “Dismiss” or “Don’t Show This Again”. Selecting “Don’t show This Again” did nothing (worse). With the dialog present you could not see the rear view camera display and if you are one of many drivers with muscle memory, the car was already rolling backwards when you realize you cannot see (unacceptable).
Elon sucks and I would never buy a Tesla but just adding this as a reference point that software in cars generally sucks.