I don’t have a dog in this fight since I’m a longtime Firefox/Linux (or Apple if I have to sell out) user but I hope people keep doing whatever they’re doing now just to see how far Microsoft goes with the begging.
If anyone is wondering, the reason I don’t use either is: I’m a longtime web developer and I know the value of an open web built on open standards. It’s more valuable than Microsoft or Google. Firefox (and the Mozilla Foundation) basically exist to shame the corporate browser vendors when they get greedy and stray from open standards.
Never owned a Windows computer and never will. I have no idea why anyone puts up with bullshit like this. On Linux, I tell it to install something and it just fucking does what I say. Don’t even need an account.
Unless it requires a different version of node.js that cannot be upgraded as it requires an older version of some other software, but cannot be upgraded because that other software needs just that particular version and will stop working if you dare upgrade, so you choose to upgrade anyway, so your package manager refuses to upgrade anything now because you broke something just to get that new software to work.
I love linux, and until recently used it exclusively on my own computers, I know all/most of these are solvable, but as a long time novice who’s sick of fixing these things, it’s a real life scenario.
I currently choose between upgrading my browser (which refuses to load several accounts as long as it’s not upgraded) and software I use as a hobby which won’t work if I let synaptic package manager fix whatever it deems broken.
Currently using windows almost exclusively for day to day work, and dual booting mint for one single purpose. Hating windows with a passion while doing so but life is too short to fix dependencies…
I have an anecdote with some long-ish accompanying rambling nonsense that boils down to agreeing with you.
I’ve had Linux systems on and off for years. I think I started on Slackware (it’s been too long to remember). I just installed EndeavourOS on a laptop with good compatibility the other day.
First, systemd-boot problems. Fine. Live USB, command line. Fixed. Then Bluetooth problems. Edit config file. Fixed. Wouldn’t connect my third monitor. Another config file, apparently. Fixed. Wouldn’t switch to my dGPU. Still not fixed, but at this point I have lost interest in fixing. So no gaming on Linux on that system because I can’t be bothered.
I also loaded Windows because I prefer a fresh install to removing bloatware. Installed. That’s it. It worked. Bluetooth, third monitor, GPU switching, the works.
Once it’s running, assuming I don’t run into the same problem you’re running into, Linux is fairly bulletproof. But your average person has no interest in editing config files and playing around in the terminal. They want to buy a computer, maybe install a browser they’re comfortable with, and get on the Internet to do whatever internety things they do. They don’t need to spend time getting things just right because they live in a web browser and possibly Office (although that number is pretty small for home users).
People don’t care. You’re right, life is too short. I want to go to a concert, go sing karaoke, ride a motorcycle, build a cabinet, play a game, or go have a drink. Others may want to go watch sports, go hiking, go rock climbing, go to a wine tasting, or go out with coworkers. Grandpa wants to whittle on the back porch and maybe cook some ribs. College kids have school, parties, social clubs, and activities.
When Linux is someone’s hobby, that’s great! It means they like something and I’m all for people enjoying themselves. But I think a lot of those folks forget that most people just can’t care about how they get to the Internet as long as they can get there. Because all a laptop is to most people is an Internet machine.
It would be like someone who is into woodworking as a hobby wondering why these Linux guys aren’t building their own desks from scratch. They’re sturdier and could last a lifetime if properly done. It’s super easy to build too! Way easier than those wobbly things from Amazon and made of real wood.
EDIT: Found a new issue today. Proton games don’t run from an NTFS partition without a bunch of configs. Install package, gather info, change fstab, reboot, find typos, fix fstab, reboot, still not working. So I can’t even share low requirement games between OSes. So I’m no longer dual booting. I’ll just pull out the Linux laptop when I need Linux. It’s more work than I want to put in to have a dual boot gaming laptop.
Linux was definitely my hobby twenty years ago, loved solving problems, getting everything to work exactly as I want it to. I actually found some great solutions to problems arising from using old hardware (will never forget the many hours/days/weekends I’ve spent without ever managing to get ir remote to work).
It was exciting and interesting and fulfilling.
Twenty years later, I still meddle with things, I would have loved to have that sort of time on my hands, but I don’t.
I did find a distro that was absolutely perfect for me out of the box, it used debian as a base, which is what I know, very light and works great with older hardware (bunsenlabs in case you’re interested).
After a few years of bliss, It didn’t like the versions I needed for software I wanted to use for my hobby - which no ‘regular’ user would be interested in by the way. There was no update for a while, I got fed up, and blamed myself for not managing to use some solutions that manage installing multiple versions of the same software for use by different programs.
Gave up and installed Mint - the most vanilla distro, no street-cred, but should just work, right?
Well, not really.
I’m sure npm and other three letter tools can help, I just don’t know how to use them.
I still love bunsenlabs, the perfectly intuitive shortcuts. I miss openbox and i3, and miss using keyboard-only 98% of the time. I even miss my old 13ish year old x220 and x230 which run fast enough to be my main laptops, only to be replaced recently for some reasonable battery life.
I hope I’ll manage to get things working again (will only try in a few months, after accomplishing something I’ve been trying to do for a couple of years now but couldn’t because I couldn’t get the software to work up until now).
I also hope bunsenlabs come out with a new version for me to install by then, it was bliss, something that just worked perfectly (including bluetooth, dual screens, sleep, wake up, audio, everything a windows computer is expected to do.
This is too long for not saying much, but one last thing :
New laptop t14
Installed linux mint - everything seems to be working fine. Installed windows 10 - had to connect to wired network to download lenovo drivers for WiFi!
I don’t download chrome using it. I think Edge is actually better than chrome, but I use neither. Firefox is where it’s at. I hate this assumption that everyone loves chrome.
I agree with you. I really prefer Edge to Chrome, just the fact I can have vertical tabs directly in the browser is awesome.
But I still prefer Firefox over both of them even if I believe (conspiracy theory) it lags behind Chrome on features because Google pays Mozilla and it is probably in their agreement that Firefox must lag behind in some features.
You are not logged in. However you can subscribe from another Fediverse account, for example Lemmy or Mastodon. To do this, paste the following into the search field of your instance: !technology@lemmy.world
This is a most excellent place for technology news and articles.
Microsoft needs to be broken up for being a monopoly.
I don’t have a dog in this fight since I’m a longtime Firefox/Linux (or Apple if I have to sell out) user but I hope people keep doing whatever they’re doing now just to see how far Microsoft goes with the begging.
If anyone is wondering, the reason I don’t use either is: I’m a longtime web developer and I know the value of an open web built on open standards. It’s more valuable than Microsoft or Google. Firefox (and the Mozilla Foundation) basically exist to shame the corporate browser vendors when they get greedy and stray from open standards.
Edge is chromium based. So asking why you prefer chrome instead is a valid question for them to ask.
Since never has it been valid for software to disobey the user’s instructions and interrogate them.
Market research yes, baking advertising begging into your os, no
winget install Mozilla.FirefoxNo need to even open Edge or Chrome
Never owned a Windows computer and never will. I have no idea why anyone puts up with bullshit like this. On Linux, I tell it to install something and it just fucking does what I say. Don’t even need an account.
Unless it requires a different version of node.js that cannot be upgraded as it requires an older version of some other software, but cannot be upgraded because that other software needs just that particular version and will stop working if you dare upgrade, so you choose to upgrade anyway, so your package manager refuses to upgrade anything now because you broke something just to get that new software to work.
I love linux, and until recently used it exclusively on my own computers, I know all/most of these are solvable, but as a long time novice who’s sick of fixing these things, it’s a real life scenario.
I currently choose between upgrading my browser (which refuses to load several accounts as long as it’s not upgraded) and software I use as a hobby which won’t work if I let synaptic package manager fix whatever it deems broken.
Currently using windows almost exclusively for day to day work, and dual booting mint for one single purpose. Hating windows with a passion while doing so but life is too short to fix dependencies…
I have an anecdote with some long-ish accompanying rambling nonsense that boils down to agreeing with you.
I’ve had Linux systems on and off for years. I think I started on Slackware (it’s been too long to remember). I just installed EndeavourOS on a laptop with good compatibility the other day.
First, systemd-boot problems. Fine. Live USB, command line. Fixed. Then Bluetooth problems. Edit config file. Fixed. Wouldn’t connect my third monitor. Another config file, apparently. Fixed. Wouldn’t switch to my dGPU. Still not fixed, but at this point I have lost interest in fixing. So no gaming on Linux on that system because I can’t be bothered.
I also loaded Windows because I prefer a fresh install to removing bloatware. Installed. That’s it. It worked. Bluetooth, third monitor, GPU switching, the works.
Once it’s running, assuming I don’t run into the same problem you’re running into, Linux is fairly bulletproof. But your average person has no interest in editing config files and playing around in the terminal. They want to buy a computer, maybe install a browser they’re comfortable with, and get on the Internet to do whatever internety things they do. They don’t need to spend time getting things just right because they live in a web browser and possibly Office (although that number is pretty small for home users).
People don’t care. You’re right, life is too short. I want to go to a concert, go sing karaoke, ride a motorcycle, build a cabinet, play a game, or go have a drink. Others may want to go watch sports, go hiking, go rock climbing, go to a wine tasting, or go out with coworkers. Grandpa wants to whittle on the back porch and maybe cook some ribs. College kids have school, parties, social clubs, and activities.
When Linux is someone’s hobby, that’s great! It means they like something and I’m all for people enjoying themselves. But I think a lot of those folks forget that most people just can’t care about how they get to the Internet as long as they can get there. Because all a laptop is to most people is an Internet machine.
It would be like someone who is into woodworking as a hobby wondering why these Linux guys aren’t building their own desks from scratch. They’re sturdier and could last a lifetime if properly done. It’s super easy to build too! Way easier than those wobbly things from Amazon and made of real wood.
EDIT: Found a new issue today. Proton games don’t run from an NTFS partition without a bunch of configs. Install package, gather info, change fstab, reboot, find typos, fix fstab, reboot, still not working. So I can’t even share low requirement games between OSes. So I’m no longer dual booting. I’ll just pull out the Linux laptop when I need Linux. It’s more work than I want to put in to have a dual boot gaming laptop.
Love it! Exactly my sentiment.
Linux was definitely my hobby twenty years ago, loved solving problems, getting everything to work exactly as I want it to. I actually found some great solutions to problems arising from using old hardware (will never forget the many hours/days/weekends I’ve spent without ever managing to get ir remote to work).
It was exciting and interesting and fulfilling.
Twenty years later, I still meddle with things, I would have loved to have that sort of time on my hands, but I don’t. I did find a distro that was absolutely perfect for me out of the box, it used debian as a base, which is what I know, very light and works great with older hardware (bunsenlabs in case you’re interested).
After a few years of bliss, It didn’t like the versions I needed for software I wanted to use for my hobby - which no ‘regular’ user would be interested in by the way. There was no update for a while, I got fed up, and blamed myself for not managing to use some solutions that manage installing multiple versions of the same software for use by different programs. Gave up and installed Mint - the most vanilla distro, no street-cred, but should just work, right? Well, not really. I’m sure npm and other three letter tools can help, I just don’t know how to use them.
I still love bunsenlabs, the perfectly intuitive shortcuts. I miss openbox and i3, and miss using keyboard-only 98% of the time. I even miss my old 13ish year old x220 and x230 which run fast enough to be my main laptops, only to be replaced recently for some reasonable battery life. I hope I’ll manage to get things working again (will only try in a few months, after accomplishing something I’ve been trying to do for a couple of years now but couldn’t because I couldn’t get the software to work up until now). I also hope bunsenlabs come out with a new version for me to install by then, it was bliss, something that just worked perfectly (including bluetooth, dual screens, sleep, wake up, audio, everything a windows computer is expected to do.
This is too long for not saying much, but one last thing : New laptop t14 Installed linux mint - everything seems to be working fine. Installed windows 10 - had to connect to wired network to download lenovo drivers for WiFi!
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Why defend one company’s monopolistic abuse over another’s?
I literally cannot conceive of what life choices must have led you to publicly simping for MS. You appear to do it a lot…
Yes, MS is bad. Google too.
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Edge is actually better than Chrome, but I wouldn’t recommend either.
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Edge has way more useful features, while both browsers are bloated messes with tons of spyware.
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I don’t download chrome using it. I think Edge is actually better than chrome, but I use neither. Firefox is where it’s at. I hate this assumption that everyone loves chrome.
Edge is actually really efficient. Over the years I’ve gone back and forth between the browsers as each seems to go through periods of inefficiency.
I agree with you. I really prefer Edge to Chrome, just the fact I can have vertical tabs directly in the browser is awesome. But I still prefer Firefox over both of them even if I believe (conspiracy theory) it lags behind Chrome on features because Google pays Mozilla and it is probably in their agreement that Firefox must lag behind in some features.
Eeeeevvvry damn post about browsers I see the same garbage posts about using Firefox. You have become the vegans of the browser wars.
You mean the ones on the right side of history?
Fuck me…I never left Firefox…I never liked/trusted chrome and fuck explorer/edge. I’m not a vegan…right‽
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That’s all I’ve used Explorer/edge for, for the last 15 years.