Tesla’s slashing prices. Ford just cut the price of its Mustang Mach-E, too, plus it cut back production of its electric pickup. And General Motors is thinking about bringing back plug-in hybrids.
No, electric vehicle sales aren’t dropping. Here’s what’s really going on::Tesla has been slashing prices. Ford just cut the price of its Mustang Mach-E, too, plus it cut back production of its electric pickup. And General Motors is thinking about bringing back plug-in hybrids, arguably a step back from EVs.
I only meant to say that many of the things that might put people off buying electric cars, like range concerns etc. can be alleviated.
Even with subsidies and incentives it was slow going in the beginning, before people gained trust in the infrastructure and realized electric could be a real and practical alternative.
I don’t buy this logic at all. A larger population also means a much larger taxpayer base, so it evens out. US can offer incentives like this but chooses not to. Half the population seems to feel threatened by any incentives. Then going down to state levels: some states do offer additional incentives and some don’t. The population size isn’t an economical difference, it’s a political difference
I own an EV. Whats to ‘crawl back to’? The constant maintenance costs? The expensive fuel? The shittier driving experience? The worse noise and vibration?
I was able to get a charger installed …… it was so easy to get used to treating it like phone charging: plugin at night and it is always ready to go. I am done with gas stations, and hope I never need to go “crawling back” to them
My next car purchase if at all, will be some plugin electric (full or hybrid). The only reason I haven’t purchased it yet is because the form factor I am looking for in a car hasn’t been made in a plug in variety yet.
Also the stories about constant surveillance and tracking, and the push for shit-tier infotainment when I already have one in my pocket (phone) are not helping either.
General Motors is thinking about bringing back plug-in hybrids
GREAT! Ditching PHEV’s was a stupid idea, we don’t have the charging infrastructure for most people to buy EV’s moving forward. We need an interim solution, and PHEV’s work great. They use a LOT less gas for most people (depending on driving habits) but you have the fuel tank in case you’re on a long road trip, or in a charging desert.
Have y’all seen the new Prius Prime? It starts at $33k, it actually looks kinda cool (subjectively), and it’s FAST (objectively). We need more cars like that.
Highly depends on where you are in the world. I feel like PHEVs might make some sense in America, in Europe demand is shrinking every year since charging networks have gotten fairly good and BEVs offer more flexibility in terms of charging, especially if you can’t charge at home.
They arguably do in Australia, since the charging infrastructure is poor to non-existent in some places.
Melbourne, one of the major cities, has about seven charging stations for the entire metropolis. Until the charging network is built up more effectively, if you live there, it would make more sense to buy a PHEV to tide you over until it became practical to run electric all the time.
This is the kind of thing the makes me call BS when someone tries to use this excuse for the US. 7 charging stations for Melbourne? Wow.
I’m sure it depends on where you are, but my one road trip was to a small town in New Hampshire, not near any major city. The Tesla Supercharger station must have had at least a dozen spots and there were two other large charging stations. I’m reasonably sure most of the US population already has more chargers than they believe, and the rural areas that don’t are already a niche
I live in a relatively small town in Germany (about 8k residents) and we have mutiple public charging stations here. Insane how bad the infrastructure is over in Australia.
PHEV in my opinion is a really dumb idea. It got popular, because it was an easy way for car manufacturers to continue making large SUVs and adhere to even stricter fuel efficiency restrictions, while also benefitting from generous state subsidies. Now that those subsidies are either scaled down or completely removed the PHEV sector is shrinking fast.
The benefit of EV is not only that you can charge at your own garage but that you also have lower maintenance cost and even if the upfront cost is higher, your cost over time lowers the more you drive it and depending on electricity prices, etc. you can break even with ICE.
With PHEV, the maintenance cost is higher than ICE, because at the end you need to service and maintain two engines.
IMO its a great idea right now because IIRC 90% of round trips are 50 miles or less. So if you have a 200 mile battery, 75% of it is dead weight most the time. PHEVs remove the range anxiety present in most parts of the US with poor charger networks. Plus if battery manufacturing becomes a bottleneck in the near future it will be good to reduce the amount needed per car.
Maybe in the future good charger networks and much cheaper batteries will solve the problem but for the next 20 years I think PHEVs will fill an important role.
At the same time, a PHEV is a good stopgap if you live in a place with poor charging infrastructure. You might be able to charge enough to drive locally, but not when going some place farther afield. For example, I may be able to charge enough to drive around the neighbourhood from my socket, but literally half the city does not have any kind of EV charging capability, making a BEV unsuitable.
A PHEV would do better there, since I could switch to petrol if needed, and run in EV mode otherwise, and when charging infrastructure becomes good enough that I can live without the petrol part, then it might be worth switching to BEV.
PHEV in my opinion is a really dumb idea. It got popular, because it was an easy way for car manufacturers to continue making large SUVs and adhere to even stricter fuel efficiency restrictions, while also benefitting from generous state subsidies. Now that those subsidies are either scaled down or completely removed the PHEV sector is shrinking fast.
I’d argue that to be less of a issue with PHEV, since they weren’t all that common to start with, and more of an issue with things like Mild Hybrids where the motor is just there to give the ICE a little boost, and precious little else.
With PHEV, the maintenance cost is higher than ICE, because at the end you need to service and maintain two engines.
I would be curious if they are. ECVT systems don’t seem that much more complex than an equivalent automatic transmission, since the motor doubles as the starter and internal brake bands.
Maybe for the diesel-electric locomotive-type drivetrain that Opel’s Ampera-E uses, since it’s basically an EV with an onboard generator, but even then, maintenance costs could easily be offset by the ICE not running as often or as hard.
The catalytic converters of hybrid cars are often sought after because they are cleaner and don’t see as much wear as their ICE counterparts. It would not be much of a stretch for that logic to extend to hybrid engines.
No. It all depends on how you drive it. If you just drive a PHEV around town and do the occasional road trip (which is how most people drive) then the ICE engine sees very little wear and requires very little service.
If you’re doing constant road trips and burning up the road, a PHEV is not for you. And neither is an EV, honestly.
An EV would work if the infrastructure was there. Modern EV batteries can charge full in like 15 minutes but it’s not even gonna take that long cause you’ll obviously not be plugging it in at 0%. The charger needs to support that amount of power throughput tho tbf.
True but the issue is that your government isn’t doing anything about it. They could e.g. require every gas station to have an electric charger (Will be the case soon in Germany)
I have over 110k miles on my EV in 5 years, and that’s including COVID lockdown and then moving to the city where I drive even less. The charging infrastructure is there for Tesla. I was able to drive across the country (Washington to Mississippi/Alabama) three times so far, down in rural Texas, Oklahoma, Mississippi, in the snow, through the Rocky mountains, through the cascades for hikes, etc.
It’s a no brainer. I’m never going back to anything with a combustion engine. If Tesla can do charging infrastructure that makes 99.9% of the US easily accessible, so can Ford or any other big EV manufacturer.
Bullshit. Being able to eventually get somewhere doesn’t mean the infrastructure is “there” unless your standard for “there” is low. Charging every 100-150 miles means a long trip will take literally hours longer. That is just unacceptable for most people. I’ve done the trip across Pennsylvania several times in a Tesla, and Pennsylvania actually has decent charger coverage. But my trip still took a solid HOUR longer than usual. And if I have to wait in line at a full Tesla charger, it’ll add even more than an hour.
The fact that you, personally, are okay with driving slower doesn’t mean everyone else is. And that argument doesn’t even touch the fact that you’re only saying the infrastructure is there for Teslas. What about all the other brands? Everyone in America has to buy a Tesla?
I charge every 2-3 hours for 15-25 mins. So a 6.5 hour trip will take about 7.5-8 hours. For my latest cross country trip, it took 48 hours with charging from Seattle to Jackson Mississippi. Google says it’s a 38 hour drive. So it added about 25% but he drive was so much more enjoyable. We got food at all of our stops so it didn’t add that much time when you factor in stopping for food, gas, water, dog, etc. Sure it adds a little time, but it helps me stay awake.
Charging infrastructure is only going to get better and faster. Imagine a 500mile battery that charges to 80 in 15 mins. You’ll only stop every 4-5 hours for 15 mins. About the same as a gas car now.
Also, that’s why I said I can’t wait to have charging infrastructure with other automakers.
I didn’t say everyone should get an EV either. I’d much rather have better mass public transit. I’m just saying the infrastructure is there for EV charging.
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Btw, in Norway 92% of new car sales in January were electric cars, and apparently predictions for February are even higher.
When the infrastructure is there, people appear to have little to no qualms buying electric cars.
Norway has a range of subsidies worth up to half the price of the vehicle and home upgrades plus tax exemptions worth another 25% on top of that.
Which can mean a brand new EV is the same price as an old secondhand ICE.
Incentives like that are a lot easier your entire national population is smaller than some cities.
I only meant to say that many of the things that might put people off buying electric cars, like range concerns etc. can be alleviated.
Even with subsidies and incentives it was slow going in the beginning, before people gained trust in the infrastructure and realized electric could be a real and practical alternative.
I didn’t mean to be an asshole, sorry.
You weren’t an asshole
I don’t buy this logic at all. A larger population also means a much larger taxpayer base, so it evens out. US can offer incentives like this but chooses not to. Half the population seems to feel threatened by any incentives. Then going down to state levels: some states do offer additional incentives and some don’t. The population size isn’t an economical difference, it’s a political difference
Maybe you should split your country up into smaller, independent regions that can govern more effectively.
You could call them “States”
How does a smaller population make it easier to pay those incentives? Less people also means less tax income and vice versa
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😱NO! Its all just a lie…keep buying EVs.
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I own an EV. Whats to ‘crawl back to’? The constant maintenance costs? The expensive fuel? The shittier driving experience? The worse noise and vibration?
Nah, bruh. Im good. I will never go back to ICE.
I was able to get a charger installed …… it was so easy to get used to treating it like phone charging: plugin at night and it is always ready to go. I am done with gas stations, and hope I never need to go “crawling back” to them
My next car purchase if at all, will be some plugin electric (full or hybrid). The only reason I haven’t purchased it yet is because the form factor I am looking for in a car hasn’t been made in a plug in variety yet.
Also the stories about constant surveillance and tracking, and the push for shit-tier infotainment when I already have one in my pocket (phone) are not helping either.
Just make a dumb battery on wheels, already.
Super just curious, what kind of form factor are you looking for? Any upcoming releases that match it?
GREAT! Ditching PHEV’s was a stupid idea, we don’t have the charging infrastructure for most people to buy EV’s moving forward. We need an interim solution, and PHEV’s work great. They use a LOT less gas for most people (depending on driving habits) but you have the fuel tank in case you’re on a long road trip, or in a charging desert.
Have y’all seen the new Prius Prime? It starts at $33k, it actually looks kinda cool (subjectively), and it’s FAST (objectively). We need more cars like that.
Highly depends on where you are in the world. I feel like PHEVs might make some sense in America, in Europe demand is shrinking every year since charging networks have gotten fairly good and BEVs offer more flexibility in terms of charging, especially if you can’t charge at home.
They arguably do in Australia, since the charging infrastructure is poor to non-existent in some places.
Melbourne, one of the major cities, has about seven charging stations for the entire metropolis. Until the charging network is built up more effectively, if you live there, it would make more sense to buy a PHEV to tide you over until it became practical to run electric all the time.
This is the kind of thing the makes me call BS when someone tries to use this excuse for the US. 7 charging stations for Melbourne? Wow.
I’m sure it depends on where you are, but my one road trip was to a small town in New Hampshire, not near any major city. The Tesla Supercharger station must have had at least a dozen spots and there were two other large charging stations. I’m reasonably sure most of the US population already has more chargers than they believe, and the rural areas that don’t are already a niche
I live in a relatively small town in Germany (about 8k residents) and we have mutiple public charging stations here. Insane how bad the infrastructure is over in Australia.
I read some studies that PHEV owners don’t plug in. So there should not be any tax credits for the purchase.
If we want to do anything to stimulate, there should be something based on electric driving.
PHEV is not the same as a common hybrid. It’s literally in the name.
PHEV in my opinion is a really dumb idea. It got popular, because it was an easy way for car manufacturers to continue making large SUVs and adhere to even stricter fuel efficiency restrictions, while also benefitting from generous state subsidies. Now that those subsidies are either scaled down or completely removed the PHEV sector is shrinking fast.
The benefit of EV is not only that you can charge at your own garage but that you also have lower maintenance cost and even if the upfront cost is higher, your cost over time lowers the more you drive it and depending on electricity prices, etc. you can break even with ICE.
With PHEV, the maintenance cost is higher than ICE, because at the end you need to service and maintain two engines.
IMO its a great idea right now because IIRC 90% of round trips are 50 miles or less. So if you have a 200 mile battery, 75% of it is dead weight most the time. PHEVs remove the range anxiety present in most parts of the US with poor charger networks. Plus if battery manufacturing becomes a bottleneck in the near future it will be good to reduce the amount needed per car.
Maybe in the future good charger networks and much cheaper batteries will solve the problem but for the next 20 years I think PHEVs will fill an important role.
At the same time, a PHEV is a good stopgap if you live in a place with poor charging infrastructure. You might be able to charge enough to drive locally, but not when going some place farther afield. For example, I may be able to charge enough to drive around the neighbourhood from my socket, but literally half the city does not have any kind of EV charging capability, making a BEV unsuitable.
A PHEV would do better there, since I could switch to petrol if needed, and run in EV mode otherwise, and when charging infrastructure becomes good enough that I can live without the petrol part, then it might be worth switching to BEV.
I’d argue that to be less of a issue with PHEV, since they weren’t all that common to start with, and more of an issue with things like Mild Hybrids where the motor is just there to give the ICE a little boost, and precious little else.
I would be curious if they are. ECVT systems don’t seem that much more complex than an equivalent automatic transmission, since the motor doubles as the starter and internal brake bands.
Maybe for the diesel-electric locomotive-type drivetrain that Opel’s Ampera-E uses, since it’s basically an EV with an onboard generator, but even then, maintenance costs could easily be offset by the ICE not running as often or as hard.
The catalytic converters of hybrid cars are often sought after because they are cleaner and don’t see as much wear as their ICE counterparts. It would not be much of a stretch for that logic to extend to hybrid engines.
No. It all depends on how you drive it. If you just drive a PHEV around town and do the occasional road trip (which is how most people drive) then the ICE engine sees very little wear and requires very little service.
If you’re doing constant road trips and burning up the road, a PHEV is not for you. And neither is an EV, honestly.
An EV would work if the infrastructure was there. Modern EV batteries can charge full in like 15 minutes but it’s not even gonna take that long cause you’ll obviously not be plugging it in at 0%. The charger needs to support that amount of power throughput tho tbf.
Right, but it’s not yet. So a PHEV is a better option for most people (for now).
True but the issue is that your government isn’t doing anything about it. They could e.g. require every gas station to have an electric charger (Will be the case soon in Germany)
Okay. And until the government does something about it, a PHEV is an excellent choice.
I have over 110k miles on my EV in 5 years, and that’s including COVID lockdown and then moving to the city where I drive even less. The charging infrastructure is there for Tesla. I was able to drive across the country (Washington to Mississippi/Alabama) three times so far, down in rural Texas, Oklahoma, Mississippi, in the snow, through the Rocky mountains, through the cascades for hikes, etc.
It’s a no brainer. I’m never going back to anything with a combustion engine. If Tesla can do charging infrastructure that makes 99.9% of the US easily accessible, so can Ford or any other big EV manufacturer.
Bullshit. Being able to eventually get somewhere doesn’t mean the infrastructure is “there” unless your standard for “there” is low. Charging every 100-150 miles means a long trip will take literally hours longer. That is just unacceptable for most people. I’ve done the trip across Pennsylvania several times in a Tesla, and Pennsylvania actually has decent charger coverage. But my trip still took a solid HOUR longer than usual. And if I have to wait in line at a full Tesla charger, it’ll add even more than an hour.
The fact that you, personally, are okay with driving slower doesn’t mean everyone else is. And that argument doesn’t even touch the fact that you’re only saying the infrastructure is there for Teslas. What about all the other brands? Everyone in America has to buy a Tesla?
Woah. Why all the aggression?
I charge every 2-3 hours for 15-25 mins. So a 6.5 hour trip will take about 7.5-8 hours. For my latest cross country trip, it took 48 hours with charging from Seattle to Jackson Mississippi. Google says it’s a 38 hour drive. So it added about 25% but he drive was so much more enjoyable. We got food at all of our stops so it didn’t add that much time when you factor in stopping for food, gas, water, dog, etc. Sure it adds a little time, but it helps me stay awake.
Charging infrastructure is only going to get better and faster. Imagine a 500mile battery that charges to 80 in 15 mins. You’ll only stop every 4-5 hours for 15 mins. About the same as a gas car now.
Also, that’s why I said I can’t wait to have charging infrastructure with other automakers.
I didn’t say everyone should get an EV either. I’d much rather have better mass public transit. I’m just saying the infrastructure is there for EV charging.
Hertz is also selling a lot of its rental Teslas, which is probably cutting into the new car sales.