The 2025 Audi A3 looks sharper and comes with more tech, but you will have to pay a subscription for some basic in-car features.
So far there’s subscriptions for cruise control, adaptive beams, various navigation options, apple/google integration and my favorite, dual-zone climate.
Wonder how much that ends up costing per month and how much that ends up costing over the lifetime of the vehicle.
Assuming the lifetime even matters when they decide to just cut off subscriptions at some point in the future to turn features off to drive you towards buying a new vehicle and dumping this one like a good consumer.
Same. I have an a3 tfsi-e and the adaptive cruise control is subscription based ( which i learned after i started leasing ).
Last audi i will have.
No vw brands, no bmw, no tesla. Who will i go to in 3 years? :/
Absolutely insane to me that you’d pay $35k for a car, and then pay a subscription for basics like cruise control and phone connectivity. The free market free marketing again. Legislate against this now.
I’m so fucking sorry I pointed out the reality of people purchasing these cars. I’ll promise to never point out any data to you again if you just don’t block me!
Oh here, let me go find that very available data with a 2.5 second Google search since you don’t understand the car market, have probably never in your life purchased a new vehicle, and just want to argue.
You think they are lying? Jesus dude look on any dealership website and count the number of 3 year old cpo’s. This isn’t some exotic loan. It’s extremely common and you can find lease offers at literally every brand and dealership.
Edit : you might be viewing it via your lemmy client and so it’s triggering a login. I had no issues getting to it but I see what you mean.
Only by upgrading to the MMI navigation system do you get access to the app store. From there, Audi forces you into add-ons like adaptive cruise control or Apple CarPlay and Android Auto for a one-month, six-month, one-year, or three-year subscription. Or you can just purchase any of those features permanently—although Audi doesn’t say for how much.
Sounds like you’re right, but people are still right to be wary of this scheme, as the additional market segmentation will likely push up the cost of buying the feature outright. Audi is incentivized to push as many people toward the subscription model as possible to decrease the value of used vehicles.
I will worry when it happens. The car market is very competitive and vehicle reliability, safety, and feature set has improved significantly in the last 15 years.
Because this thread is an echo chamber. I know pointing out the target use case is very problematic and odd. I’ll be quite and you all can continue to ignore that a fifth of buyers rent the entire vehicle for 3 years and haven’t been doing it for 50.
I’m not even saying you’re wrong necessarily, but it’s just very weird behavior to take this aggressive of a pro-corporate stance on something I think everyone should agree is a shitty, unnecessary practice. Regardless of the use case, locking features behind a paywall is always a shitty thing for a multibillion dollar company to do.
People like the option. It’s not weird at all to believe that having different options for owning, leading, and renting allows more access to the vehicle and products. The original comment is about limiting how I pay for a car. Leasing+ subscription works for many customers.
A leased car with those options 5 years ago didn’t cost you a subscription, and now they will. You want the option to what? Pay more for something that you didn’t have to before?
It means, to ruin (something) or to make many mistakes in doing (something).
I made sure I got it from an American English dictionary, Merriam Webster, anticipation of those who say that it doesn’t belong to American English. 🤷♂️
I mean. America’s isn’t doing much better on the engineering front. Ford and Chrysler issued the most recalls in 2023 apparently. GM is also in the top 10.
No doubt, though I would point to the US automakers being too busy being obsessed with annihilating worker power and unions over the last 50 years as the primary reason American cars suck. Instead of paying engineers to spend time innovating and improving their designs they paid harvard business assholes to micromanage workers and strategize how to shuffle vehicle plants around so that workers organizing for better treatment would be least likely to happen effectively.
The way I look at it (as a German car owner myself), you gotta be able to afford repairs, and you have to do maintenance. Too many people wait 10k miles to do an oil change and no car should be treated that way.
I totally agree. I’ve had my 2011 2.0 TDIe Audi A6 now for about 7 years. Never had major problems, though I specifically selected a diesel engine as the TFSI engines are crap. I also do pretty much all of.my own work so only pay for parts when something happens, which of course helps keep costs down.
If anyone is repairing or diagnosing your own vehicle in the WV group, make sure you get the VCDS software as it helps a ton! I got some cheap clone via eBay but it’s worked just fine for many years for me.
Why would anyone sign up for that? Now you have your car payment AND the fucking subscription? Makes no damn sense. What happens when they inevitably shut down their cloud servers that keep your access to the features in the car turned on? You never own the thing.
Update: Audi issued a statement noting that the upcoming 2025 A3 in the US will have “the same offer structure for Function on Demand as the previous 2024 model year.” That means only enhanced navigation with Audi’s Virtual Cockpit and adaptive cruise control will be offered as subscriptions. Dual-zone climate control and high-beam assist won’t be offered as subscriptions in the US. Specifics will be available closer to the A3’s launch in the US.
I have a 2022. It’s not terrible, but there’s definitely a subscription for remote start and a few other connected type features. Nothing related to actual driving once you’re in the car though.
Hyundai perhaps, but they’ve also had other issues.
I can’t find an article about it right now, but I could’ve sworn they tried to pull some subscription bullshit (other than “Bluelink” or “Evolve+,” which are relatively legit) a while back, too.
At the very least I believe the only thing they’re currently doing is Bluelink (remote find your car, start car over the Internet, etc). But maybe there’s something they started in the last 6 months I haven’t heard about.
Yeah but the only thing Mazda charges a subscription for is the extra unnecessary bullshit that is coordinated through their servers. Thats a fair value proposition, even though I’d never pay for it. Heated seats, radar cruise control, shit like that still just comes with the car.
They charge for the stuff that actually requires server infrastructure after 3 years, I believe. Which is the one case that seems reasonable to me as long as it’s not gouging. But I hadn’t heard about anything else.
The logic behind the concept originally made sense, they manufacture just one car with all the features as that reduces manufacturing overhead by a ton, much more than what they would save by having one with heated seats and one without (especially when multiplied by all the possible configurations), but instead of only providing the model at the price point with all of them enabled, they disable some for the cheaper models - this is possible because car prices aren’t really based on how much they actually cost to manufacture.
This then lead into allowing people to pay to enable the features later if they wanted to, because why not, they are already there. Iirc Tesla was one of the first to do this with unlocking range, performance and “self-driving” stuff.
And finally it morphed into a subscription option because hey, if you only need heated seats a few months a year, why pay for the others? Only $10/month! And $15 for that, and $5 for that, and…
Same goes for this Audi, the subscription is an option if you buy the lower spec model and then later don’t want to pay the full price to enable the features permanently.
The logic behind the concept originally made sense, they manufacture just one car with all the features as that reduces manufacturing overhead by a ton
Yeah, at the ‘minor’ cost of the fact that the method of enforcing that market segmentation relies on using DRM to infringe upon everybody’s property rights.
Sure, that “make sense” – if you’re a capitalist sociopath trying to turn consumers into serfs. But we sure as Hell shouldn’t let them get away with it!
There is infrastructure involved with monitoring subscription status to make sure you’re not pirating heated seats. Also for taking payments to unlock your adjustable lumbar supports. They gotta pay for it somehow!
This shit should be illegal. When you buy a device, you own all the hardware and have every right to use it to the full extent of its physical capabilities. Audi has no right to hold your property hostage!
Just buy the audi and come to your local electrician, he will turn on all the functions, id rather die than let this shit happen. Tesla heated seates need subscription? Heres a 20$ dongle to turn it on forever. Hyundai remote start subscription? Here take this 80$ remote to start it forever. Bmw fake exhaust sound onley comes with M sports pack and costs over a thousand? Give me 10$ and ill turn that on and turn on everything else that is hidden.
Nope, they have no power to do this, than they would prosecute the people who create tools to do diagnostics, add keys, program modules. They have zero ground on this.
I guess you’ve been living under a rock and haven’t noticed the persecutions of folks making video game console modchips, John Deere fighting with farmers over who’s allowed to repair tractors (including an MOU that the media claims is “kind of” a win for famers, but nevertheless asserts that “modification of Embedded Software” is “illegal infringement” of John Deere’s intellectual property [sic]), etc.
Sure, nobody’s gone to prison for “jailbreaking” (which is already an absurdity that should never have become necessary in the first place) a car yet, but the DMCA Anti-Circumvention Clause is still the law of the land and unless that changes, it’s only a matter of time.
Because automotive industry is so big and wanted to do the same thing like other industrys, this law had to be passed RIGHT TO REPAIR. After this some xompanys like Jaguar, Ford, Peugeot put theyr programs for free online for everyone to use to repair their cars. Other made them payed but it was not a big sum. Now going in to 2015 when subscription stuff was picking up, we onley have Jaguar free. Others not onley made them more expensive but now you have to provide information about who you are and what you work, some even made you pay 15$ for 24h to let you connect to one vin number and just delete faults. But still you could and still can do anything you want to your car, Ive never heard anyone who got in trouble for moding theyr car. Expet when making changes to the odometer or the exhaust system/ eco system but thats another league. There are also standarts that dont let you change any light outside your vehicle but thats about safety. But talking about seat heating, remote start or other comfort functions, unless you want to have a gusrantee from your shop, nobody GIVES A FUCK what you do to your car.
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retards buying subscription based cars need to grow the fuck up and recognize a principle for once
Is there a way to ‘jailbreak’ these cars?
Can I still buy a dongle and Bluetooth into it and subscribe myself for free?
Wonder how much that ends up costing per month and how much that ends up costing over the lifetime of the vehicle.
Assuming the lifetime even matters when they decide to just cut off subscriptions at some point in the future to turn features off to drive you towards buying a new vehicle and dumping this one like a good consumer.
deleted by creator
I was considering an A3 for my next new car. Nope. Not anymore.
Same. I have an a3 tfsi-e and the adaptive cruise control is subscription based ( which i learned after i started leasing ).
Last audi i will have.
No vw brands, no bmw, no tesla. Who will i go to in 3 years? :/
Absolutely insane to me that you’d pay $35k for a car, and then pay a subscription for basics like cruise control and phone connectivity. The free market free marketing again. Legislate against this now.
Why? Who is going to buy it?
A fifth of users in the US rent the car itself via lease mechanisms. You aren’t the target.
Assuming there are discounts the folks leasing will use these options.
You’re worth blocking
I’m so fucking sorry I pointed out the reality of people purchasing these cars. I’ll promise to never point out any data to you again if you just don’t block me!
You haven’t provided any data, just you talking.
Oh here, let me go find that very available data with a 2.5 second Google search since you don’t understand the car market, have probably never in your life purchased a new vehicle, and just want to argue.
https://www.statista.com/statistics/453122/share-of-new-vehicles-on-lease-usa/
No why would I need to buy a new car when my current one is fine
Then as stated, you are not the fucking customer here. Not sure why that’s so hard to accept.
This is trash I have to register and by the looks of it pay just to view the “statistics”.
You think they are lying? Jesus dude look on any dealership website and count the number of 3 year old cpo’s. This isn’t some exotic loan. It’s extremely common and you can find lease offers at literally every brand and dealership.
Edit : you might be viewing it via your lemmy client and so it’s triggering a login. I had no issues getting to it but I see what you mean.
Surely their target would be the four fifths, then?
Have they excluded that audience? As far as I know you can still purchase the vehicle or feature instead of lease.
Sounds like you’re right, but people are still right to be wary of this scheme, as the additional market segmentation will likely push up the cost of buying the feature outright. Audi is incentivized to push as many people toward the subscription model as possible to decrease the value of used vehicles.
I will worry when it happens. The car market is very competitive and vehicle reliability, safety, and feature set has improved significantly in the last 15 years.
Why are you all over this thread shilling for a predatory subscription model by a multibillion dollar corporation? Very strange behavior.
Because this thread is an echo chamber. I know pointing out the target use case is very problematic and odd. I’ll be quite and you all can continue to ignore that a fifth of buyers rent the entire vehicle for 3 years and haven’t been doing it for 50.
I’m not even saying you’re wrong necessarily, but it’s just very weird behavior to take this aggressive of a pro-corporate stance on something I think everyone should agree is a shitty, unnecessary practice. Regardless of the use case, locking features behind a paywall is always a shitty thing for a multibillion dollar company to do.
People like the option. It’s not weird at all to believe that having different options for owning, leading, and renting allows more access to the vehicle and products. The original comment is about limiting how I pay for a car. Leasing+ subscription works for many customers.
A leased car with those options 5 years ago didn’t cost you a subscription, and now they will. You want the option to what? Pay more for something that you didn’t have to before?
Again, on both the Toyota and BMW, it was less expensive than purchasing the options. You did pay for them before. They were never free.
This title is Amess
Welcome to Lemmy.
I don’t find that Lemmy has particularly poor titles, on average.
Amess is actually a word.
It means, to ruin (something) or to make many mistakes in doing (something).
I made sure I got it from an American English dictionary, Merriam Webster, anticipation of those who say that it doesn’t belong to American English. 🤷♂️
I mean I know all car companies are going to do this so this is a tangential point but why the hell would you buy an audi anyways?
Their reliability scores are fucking atrocious on audis.
The only thing german engineering is actually superior at is generating ultra rightwing nationalism.
I mean. America’s isn’t doing much better on the engineering front. Ford and Chrysler issued the most recalls in 2023 apparently. GM is also in the top 10.
No doubt, though I would point to the US automakers being too busy being obsessed with annihilating worker power and unions over the last 50 years as the primary reason American cars suck. Instead of paying engineers to spend time innovating and improving their designs they paid harvard business assholes to micromanage workers and strategize how to shuffle vehicle plants around so that workers organizing for better treatment would be least likely to happen effectively.
The way I look at it (as a German car owner myself), you gotta be able to afford repairs, and you have to do maintenance. Too many people wait 10k miles to do an oil change and no car should be treated that way.
I totally agree. I’ve had my 2011 2.0 TDIe Audi A6 now for about 7 years. Never had major problems, though I specifically selected a diesel engine as the TFSI engines are crap. I also do pretty much all of.my own work so only pay for parts when something happens, which of course helps keep costs down.
If anyone is repairing or diagnosing your own vehicle in the WV group, make sure you get the VCDS software as it helps a ton! I got some cheap clone via eBay but it’s worked just fine for many years for me.
Why would anyone sign up for that? Now you have your car payment AND the fucking subscription? Makes no damn sense. What happens when they inevitably shut down their cloud servers that keep your access to the features in the car turned on? You never own the thing.
Headline is enough for me to never consider purchasing an Audi.
Toyota is out. Mercedes is out. Audi is out. Who else?
I have an Audi, it is a great car. I dont lioe subscriptions so I wouldnt get into that type of deal but there are workarounds also.
Tesla, certainly. BMW also.
Subaru still seems to be okay.
I have a 2022. It’s not terrible, but there’s definitely a subscription for remote start and a few other connected type features. Nothing related to actual driving once you’re in the car though.
Mazda is still good I think.
But they’re kinda expensive and they gatekeep features to their higher tiers, that other manufacturers keep to their lower ones.
Hyundai perhaps, but they’ve also had other issues.
I can’t find an article about it right now, but I could’ve sworn they tried to pull some subscription bullshit (other than “Bluelink” or “Evolve+,” which are relatively legit) a while back, too.
At the very least I believe the only thing they’re currently doing is Bluelink (remote find your car, start car over the Internet, etc). But maybe there’s something they started in the last 6 months I haven’t heard about.
Mazda no, they are harassing the app developers who use their API https://www.home-assistant.io/blog/2023/10/13/removal-of-mazda-connected-services-integration/
Yeah but the only thing Mazda charges a subscription for is the extra unnecessary bullshit that is coordinated through their servers. Thats a fair value proposition, even though I’d never pay for it. Heated seats, radar cruise control, shit like that still just comes with the car.
IIRC, Hyundai is out.
Are they?
They charge for the stuff that actually requires server infrastructure after 3 years, I believe. Which is the one case that seems reasonable to me as long as it’s not gouging. But I hadn’t heard about anything else.
Can’t wait to start pirating cars.
Those ads in the early 2000s were prophetic. The answer is yes, by the way. Yes I would.
indeed, yes you should. civil disobedience is the best term for fighting uncivilized barbarian bullshit like this in the first place.
dumbest fucking timeline. A subscription for a feature that requires no infrastructure and is part of the physical thing you just paid $40k for.
For real dude.WTF.
The logic behind the concept originally made sense, they manufacture just one car with all the features as that reduces manufacturing overhead by a ton, much more than what they would save by having one with heated seats and one without (especially when multiplied by all the possible configurations), but instead of only providing the model at the price point with all of them enabled, they disable some for the cheaper models - this is possible because car prices aren’t really based on how much they actually cost to manufacture.
This then lead into allowing people to pay to enable the features later if they wanted to, because why not, they are already there. Iirc Tesla was one of the first to do this with unlocking range, performance and “self-driving” stuff.
And finally it morphed into a subscription option because hey, if you only need heated seats a few months a year, why pay for the others? Only $10/month! And $15 for that, and $5 for that, and…
Same goes for this Audi, the subscription is an option if you buy the lower spec model and then later don’t want to pay the full price to enable the features permanently.
Yeah, at the ‘minor’ cost of the fact that the method of enforcing that market segmentation relies on using DRM to infringe upon everybody’s property rights.
Sure, that “make sense” – if you’re a capitalist sociopath trying to turn consumers into serfs. But we sure as Hell shouldn’t let them get away with it!
There is infrastructure involved with monitoring subscription status to make sure you’re not pirating heated seats. Also for taking payments to unlock your adjustable lumbar supports. They gotta pay for it somehow!
This shit should be illegal. When you buy a device, you own all the hardware and have every right to use it to the full extent of its physical capabilities. Audi has no right to hold your property hostage!
Nope.
If you are leasing subscriptions it makes sense. Or for certain features.
I couldn’t care less as long as the option to buy remains. I’d almost certainly end up subbing though on my next lease.
Why do you hate property rights?
Mans dad is the regional manager at Audi of Greater Akron
Just buy the audi and come to your local electrician, he will turn on all the functions, id rather die than let this shit happen. Tesla heated seates need subscription? Heres a 20$ dongle to turn it on forever. Hyundai remote start subscription? Here take this 80$ remote to start it forever. Bmw fake exhaust sound onley comes with M sports pack and costs over a thousand? Give me 10$ and ill turn that on and turn on everything else that is hidden.
Or don’t buy it and support the brand?
Every shred of evidence is that enough idiots will buy it and it won’t really matter. Then they’ll all do it.
And then Audi gets the government to prosecute you for
exercising your property rights“violating the DMCA by circumventing DRM.”The concept here is “ownership for me, serfdom for thee.”
Nope, they have no power to do this, than they would prosecute the people who create tools to do diagnostics, add keys, program modules. They have zero ground on this.
I guess you’ve been living under a rock and haven’t noticed the persecutions of folks making video game console modchips, John Deere fighting with farmers over who’s allowed to repair tractors (including an MOU that the media claims is “kind of” a win for famers, but nevertheless asserts that “modification of Embedded Software” is “illegal infringement” of John Deere’s intellectual property [sic]), etc.
Sure, nobody’s gone to prison for “jailbreaking” (which is already an absurdity that should never have become necessary in the first place) a car yet, but the DMCA Anti-Circumvention Clause is still the law of the land and unless that changes, it’s only a matter of time.
Because automotive industry is so big and wanted to do the same thing like other industrys, this law had to be passed RIGHT TO REPAIR. After this some xompanys like Jaguar, Ford, Peugeot put theyr programs for free online for everyone to use to repair their cars. Other made them payed but it was not a big sum. Now going in to 2015 when subscription stuff was picking up, we onley have Jaguar free. Others not onley made them more expensive but now you have to provide information about who you are and what you work, some even made you pay 15$ for 24h to let you connect to one vin number and just delete faults. But still you could and still can do anything you want to your car, Ive never heard anyone who got in trouble for moding theyr car. Expet when making changes to the odometer or the exhaust system/ eco system but thats another league. There are also standarts that dont let you change any light outside your vehicle but thats about safety. But talking about seat heating, remote start or other comfort functions, unless you want to have a gusrantee from your shop, nobody GIVES A FUCK what you do to your car.