Tor/Darkweb, Freenet, LoRAWAN are all the alternate internets I can think of off the top of my head.
The difficulty is generally the “network effect”. 1 Fax machine is useless, 10000 are very useful. Similiarly, an alternate internet with one website isn’t all that interesting.
ssh, Call of Duty, email, random voice-call software on strange ports - all of them work fine. People have problems with websites.
Plenty of websites of course are fine, the problems present when people use search engines and find a bunch of guff written by a bot, Paywalls, and sign-up screens.
They say the best way to predict the future is to create it, so if you want to help there, ‘make good art’, write and share good content, don’t feed the machine. Sounds like you’re doing that already if you’re on Lemmy.
And if you want to check out a quieter corner of the internet, where things aren’t all in-your-face-sing-up-click-here-now-NOW-DOIT…download the lagrange browser and check out Gemini. It’s a mostly plain-text protocol, where people read and write, and sometimes share whacky music.
telnet is an insecure protocol. Ideally you should use ssh instead but most which some modern BBS’s support both. Of course if you want to dial in on legacy “authentic” hardware then SSH isn’t possible.
💡You can SSH (or telnet) from your phone using Termux and it works pretty well (though admittedly not as good without full ANSI support). It doesn’t use full height of screen but is still usable. BBS’s could be enhanced to support that though.
The Internet is actually very fine and alternatives to the big guys will keep popping up.
For tracking in general there are several options like pihole, adguard and NextDNS on a DNS level, Firefox/Orion browsers, Proton / Mullvad etc VPN and services.
For search I’ve been fairly happy with DuckDuckGo for some years, but not swears by Kagi.
What is gone is the early days of the seventies / early eighties with free servers at universities accessible to anyone. It doesn’t scale.
Various models tried to figure it out until we got what we’ve had for the last 10 years, “free” services where you are the product.
What you won’t get going forward is free services that gives you what you want without also tracking and collecting data on you and using it for ads etc.
What you can get is high quality services that you choose to pay for.
For now, a fair bit of them is niche and sort of expensive. Hopefully that will expand to giving is fairly broad service coverage from providers that are mostly crowd funded and open.
As someone familiar with the OSI model, this thread is a bit confusing since the Internet to me is really the infrastructure on top of which all of your fancy sites and apps are built. When you say “the Internet”, I’m thinking about TCP/IP, BGP, DNS, etc.
That said, I’m pretty sure most people here are just taking about websites at L7, although there are arguments for change at the other layers.
I think it is possible under the right circumstance. For example let’s say internet disappeared tomorrow. I think what would likely happen is local areas would start to connect.
It would start would smaller groups and slowly integrate more and more until you had the internet back.
I remember watching some sort of video, maybe it was a Vice bit, I don’t remember. They were in Cuba at this massive apartment building complex. Let’s say like 1,000 people lived there.
They didn’t have regular access to internet - they need to purchase credits from state store to use the internet. But many people have computers and want to play multi-player games even though they couldn’t afford the internet credits.
So what they do? Create a localized network between the entire complex so every person could connect, share files, share games, play games, etc. You have a mini-internet between all members of a community.
That’s all the internet is - networks connected to networks and done at the global scale. So is it possible to create another? Absolutely. Although you need some sort of incentive to do it, otherwise nobody will bother. The Cubans had an incentive, but I’m hard pressed to find a reason one would want to in the US these days. You never know, though.
You are not logged in. However you can subscribe from another Fediverse account, for example Lemmy or Mastodon. To do this, paste the following into the search field of your instance: !technology@lemmy.world
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removed by mod
With blackjack and hookers?
With blackjack and hookers!
Tor/Darkweb, Freenet, LoRAWAN are all the alternate internets I can think of off the top of my head. The difficulty is generally the “network effect”. 1 Fax machine is useless, 10000 are very useful. Similiarly, an alternate internet with one website isn’t all that interesting.
The internet’s fine - the web’s the problem.
ssh, Call of Duty, email, random voice-call software on strange ports - all of them work fine. People have problems with websites.
Plenty of websites of course are fine, the problems present when people use search engines and find a bunch of guff written by a bot, Paywalls, and sign-up screens.
They say the best way to predict the future is to create it, so if you want to help there, ‘make good art’, write and share good content, don’t feed the machine. Sounds like you’re doing that already if you’re on Lemmy.
And if you want to check out a quieter corner of the internet, where things aren’t all in-your-face-sing-up-click-here-now-NOW-DOIT…download the lagrange browser and check out Gemini. It’s a mostly plain-text protocol, where people read and write, and sometimes share whacky music.
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“Plain text” and “plaintext” are not the same.
“Plain text” = “not images, video, etc.”
“Plaintext” = “not encrypted”
Seems like all we need is a search engine that only returns sites that don’t shove unwanted content down your throat. Tall order though.
BBSes are making a comeback. This time over telnet. They’re just as great as they used to be.
If I can play tradewars again, without having to worry about one of my friends calling to knock me off so they can get in, I’m in.
telnetis an insecure protocol. Ideally you should usesshinsteadbut mostwhich some modern BBS’s support both. Of course if you want to dial in on legacy “authentic” hardware then SSH isn’t possible.💡You can SSH (or telnet) from your phone using Termux and it works pretty well (though admittedly not as good without full ANSI support). It doesn’t use full height of screen but is still usable. BBS’s could be enhanced to support that though.
Here’s an example of how one looks on my phone:
ssh NEW@bbs.bottomlessabyss.net -p 2222 -c aes256-cbcI really like Termius for SSH on Android (dunno if it’s on iOS). I use it for all my servers.
In my part of the BBS-world telnet is the only option. I’m a C64 guy, and a TCP stack is memory hungry enough for 64k of RAM.
But yes, encrypt when available.
This looks fucking awesome.
It’s not a matter of can we, but why aren’t we? Imo, at least. They can only trap us if we let them.
The Internet is actually very fine and alternatives to the big guys will keep popping up.
For tracking in general there are several options like pihole, adguard and NextDNS on a DNS level, Firefox/Orion browsers, Proton / Mullvad etc VPN and services.
For search I’ve been fairly happy with DuckDuckGo for some years, but not swears by Kagi.
What is gone is the early days of the seventies / early eighties with free servers at universities accessible to anyone. It doesn’t scale.
Various models tried to figure it out until we got what we’ve had for the last 10 years, “free” services where you are the product.
What you won’t get going forward is free services that gives you what you want without also tracking and collecting data on you and using it for ads etc.
What you can get is high quality services that you choose to pay for.
For now, a fair bit of them is niche and sort of expensive. Hopefully that will expand to giving is fairly broad service coverage from providers that are mostly crowd funded and open.
DDG makes a profit without tracking. Why couldn’t that become more standard?
As someone familiar with the OSI model, this thread is a bit confusing since the Internet to me is really the infrastructure on top of which all of your fancy sites and apps are built. When you say “the Internet”, I’m thinking about TCP/IP, BGP, DNS, etc.
That said, I’m pretty sure most people here are just taking about websites at L7, although there are arguments for change at the other layers.
The internet is much larger and diverse than the World Wide Web
We did kinda create a new Internet… the tor is pretty amazing if not pretty fighting at the same time.
It might be a bit hard to grasp, but…
We’re already on that new internet, baby!
I think it is possible under the right circumstance. For example let’s say internet disappeared tomorrow. I think what would likely happen is local areas would start to connect.
It would start would smaller groups and slowly integrate more and more until you had the internet back.
I remember watching some sort of video, maybe it was a Vice bit, I don’t remember. They were in Cuba at this massive apartment building complex. Let’s say like 1,000 people lived there.
They didn’t have regular access to internet - they need to purchase credits from state store to use the internet. But many people have computers and want to play multi-player games even though they couldn’t afford the internet credits.
So what they do? Create a localized network between the entire complex so every person could connect, share files, share games, play games, etc. You have a mini-internet between all members of a community.
That’s all the internet is - networks connected to networks and done at the global scale. So is it possible to create another? Absolutely. Although you need some sort of incentive to do it, otherwise nobody will bother. The Cubans had an incentive, but I’m hard pressed to find a reason one would want to in the US these days. You never know, though.