Supporters of the bill say it's necessary to thwart convicted felons who use 3D printers to develop untraceable "ghost guns."
I understand the intent, but feel that there are so many other loopholes that put much worse weapons on the street than a printer. Besides, my prints can barely sustain normal use, much less a bullet being fired from them. I would think that this is more of a risk to the person holding the gun than who it’s pointing at.
There’s a community that builds 3d printed guns, and those don’t last very long either. They’re not printing barrels, they’re just printing the trigger housing and grip. They go out and buy the dangerous bits.
This is all a bit pointless.
Even more pointless when you consider that once you have a 3d printer, you can make a lot of the components for a second 3d printer, and go out and buy the other parts, without ever buying a 3d printer. Now you have two ghost gun machines!! Oh the horror.
The reprap movement was exactly that. A self replicating rapid prototyper. While it never reached true replication, it got close enough to cause an explosive growth of the community. That, in turn led to the huge number of low cost suppliers and designs we have now.
This isn’t even low hanging fruit. This is fruit that’s been on the ground rotting for a few months that no one is going to pick up and eat anyway. Let’s throw ineffective solutions at the problem and when they fail go, “weeeeell, since you can buy a 3d printer and a gun online, let’s just do background checks for internet access”
I don’t even own a gun, so maybe somebody with more experience can correct me, but I do believe that many states, if not all, require a background check and waiting period. I assume there are certain crimes that remove your right to own a firearm. There are (or were) loopholes for purchasing guns at gun shows where a background check and waiting period are infeasible.
As for other weapons, there aren’t such provisions, but it may depend on the weapon. A bow and arrow, hunting knife or machete can be purchased at any wall-Mart. A grenade? I’m not sure.
All states require you to get a background check on the purchase of a firearm from a gun store. Waiting periods are in a minority of states. Pretty much any felony, even nonviolent ones prohibits you from buying a gun.
The ‘gun show loophole’ is actually just the in private party sales (like selling your neighbor your gun) no background check is mandated. This is because the law requiring background checks is a federal law and the federal government has the authority to regulate interstate commerce but not intrastate commerce. Some states like NY have stricter background check laws than the federal law.
Bows, knives, & machetes all don’t require background checks. Grenades, technically any can get a license to own & make explosives but each one carries a $200 tax in addition to the hoops required to get the license, so pretty much no one really does that recreationally.
I didn’t mention it in my comment but you assume a lot of risk in a private party sale. We aren’t talking about illegal guns but ones that have been registered at some point in time if they aren’t historical.
If you want to sell a gun, you should go through an FFL to avoid liability.
All retailers are required to have a Federal Fire Arms license and background checks are required for all purchases made through an FFL. That means all gun show purchases made through an FFL as well.
The “gun show loophole” is a political myth used by politicians on the left to describe a legal purchase through a private sale, which may or may not happen out in the parking lot of some gun show. But not through a licensed vendor.
All US firearms purchases made at gun stores involve background checks. In some states (like California) you are also required to do so for private party sales (like buying from your neighbor).
Like book piracy was never a huge thing because you’d need a hell of a set up to make a book from scratch. Music piracy however…
I’m sure a decently skilled craftsman could make a decent firearm with a short trip to Home Depot, but the average Joe can’t make that happen too easily. With a 3D printer, you could have a gun with next to zero skill. Like a decently motivated person is going to find a gun anyway, but this maybe addresses the less motivated people/crimes of passion, etc.
That being said, if these are the same people advocating for a waiting period, they obviously don’t know how long 3D printing a gun takes.
Edit: for those downvoting, I’m not saying this is a good idea. I think the same result could be had by going after whoever is hosting the design files. Like at least keep them off thingiverse and make them slightly hard to find.
I’m reminded of Leland Yee. California politician who was in favor of gun control all while doing gun running stuff himself. Guess he felt gun control was good for business.
The New York Police Department has reportedly seen a 60% increase in ghost guns seized from city streets for the past two consecutive years. NYPD recently traced some online ghost gun sales to a “ghost gun printing operation” filled with 3D printers and firearms nestled within a daycare center.
I have no idea from this if the increase in ghost guns was attributable to 3D printing, or if the increase even represents a significant number.
It also seems like this would be really difficult to enforce. You can buy hardware or kits to build your own printer, or you can buy an old printer off someone else.
All that said, if it represents a reasonable concern and they figure out a way where it’s not trivially circumvented (both of which seem unlikely), I really couldn’t care less about a background check.
A big part of the increase in “ghost guns” is that New York’s definition of “ghost gun” includes not only the scratch made guns that most people think of as “ghost guns” but also any gun without an easily read serial number. So regular guns with obliterated serial numbers count as “ghost guns” in New York.
No need. You can buy ALL of the parts off the shelf for a 3D printer and assemble it yourself. None are regulated (Aluminum rails, motors, arduino controllers, LCD panels, Power supplies, heating elements, thermistors, wiring). Strictly speaking there’s nothing about a non-resin 3d Printer you can’t procure and build yourself. And you can even 3d Print the housings to make it look nice once you’ve assembled it. Oh… and the designs and parts are largely open source.
Gotta stop those guns made from kids. (Per the first image caption in the article).
A ghost gun is displayed before the start of an event about gun violence in the Rose Garden of the White House April 11, 2022 in Washington, DC. Biden announced a new firearm regulation aimed at reining in ghost guns, untraceable, unregulated weapons made from kids. Biden also announced Steve Dettelbach as his nominee to lead the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives
Anything to regulate and restrict the people/end users but not address any real problems in society.
Go after the gun companies, gun lobbies, NRA? No, never. Address housing, income, and educational inequality? That sounds complicated, tough, and expensive.
This has similar vibes to shaming/regulating people for using too much water in their showers and for washing their cars, but when a multi-billion dollar oil company spills millions of gallons of crude into the sea causing years of environmental damage due to negligence, fine them a few million dollars and tell them they’ve been very naughty…
So tired of politicians being in the pocket of Capitalist scumbags.
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There’s a community that builds 3d printed guns, and those don’t last very long either. They’re not printing barrels, they’re just printing the trigger housing and grip. They go out and buy the dangerous bits.
This is all a bit pointless.
Even more pointless when you consider that once you have a 3d printer, you can make a lot of the components for a second 3d printer, and go out and buy the other parts, without ever buying a 3d printer. Now you have two ghost gun machines!! Oh the horror.
A self replicating 3D printer? I like it.
The reprap movement was exactly that. A self replicating rapid prototyper. While it never reached true replication, it got close enough to cause an explosive growth of the community. That, in turn led to the huge number of low cost suppliers and designs we have now.
This isn’t even low hanging fruit. This is fruit that’s been on the ground rotting for a few months that no one is going to pick up and eat anyway. Let’s throw ineffective solutions at the problem and when they fail go, “weeeeell, since you can buy a 3d printer and a gun online, let’s just do background checks for internet access”
That was sort of my point. I’m going to go out on a limb and say without any research that bears kill more people every year than 3D printers.
“We’ve done absolutely nothing, and nothing has changed, guess school shootings are the new norm, get used to it”
What are the requirements for other weapons? Does California require a criminal record check for firearms purchases too? I’m Canadian.
I don’t even own a gun, so maybe somebody with more experience can correct me, but I do believe that many states, if not all, require a background check and waiting period. I assume there are certain crimes that remove your right to own a firearm. There are (or were) loopholes for purchasing guns at gun shows where a background check and waiting period are infeasible.
As for other weapons, there aren’t such provisions, but it may depend on the weapon. A bow and arrow, hunting knife or machete can be purchased at any wall-Mart. A grenade? I’m not sure.
From what I understand, given IANAL and don’t own one:
Background checks: Yes
Waiting period: no
Crimes: any felony, or domestic violence charges
Gun shows: AFAIK that’s never actually been true
Other: Probably 16 or 18+ but I don’t think there is anything federal
Explosives: lots of paper, similar to an automatic firearm
All states require you to get a background check on the purchase of a firearm from a gun store. Waiting periods are in a minority of states. Pretty much any felony, even nonviolent ones prohibits you from buying a gun.
The ‘gun show loophole’ is actually just the in private party sales (like selling your neighbor your gun) no background check is mandated. This is because the law requiring background checks is a federal law and the federal government has the authority to regulate interstate commerce but not intrastate commerce. Some states like NY have stricter background check laws than the federal law.
Bows, knives, & machetes all don’t require background checks. Grenades, technically any can get a license to own & make explosives but each one carries a $200 tax in addition to the hoops required to get the license, so pretty much no one really does that recreationally.
I didn’t mention it in my comment but you assume a lot of risk in a private party sale. We aren’t talking about illegal guns but ones that have been registered at some point in time if they aren’t historical.
If you want to sell a gun, you should go through an FFL to avoid liability.
All retailers are required to have a Federal Fire Arms license and background checks are required for all purchases made through an FFL. That means all gun show purchases made through an FFL as well.
The “gun show loophole” is a political myth used by politicians on the left to describe a legal purchase through a private sale, which may or may not happen out in the parking lot of some gun show. But not through a licensed vendor.
All US firearms purchases made at gun stores involve background checks. In some states (like California) you are also required to do so for private party sales (like buying from your neighbor).
Is this a real problem? How many crimes are being committed with 3D printed guns?
I can kind of see the logic.
Like book piracy was never a huge thing because you’d need a hell of a set up to make a book from scratch. Music piracy however…
I’m sure a decently skilled craftsman could make a decent firearm with a short trip to Home Depot, but the average Joe can’t make that happen too easily. With a 3D printer, you could have a gun with next to zero skill. Like a decently motivated person is going to find a gun anyway, but this maybe addresses the less motivated people/crimes of passion, etc.
That being said, if these are the same people advocating for a waiting period, they obviously don’t know how long 3D printing a gun takes.
Edit: for those downvoting, I’m not saying this is a good idea. I think the same result could be had by going after whoever is hosting the design files. Like at least keep them off thingiverse and make them slightly hard to find.
Book piracy was huge I don’t know what you’re talking about. You could get professionally printed books or you could always just photocopy them.
Ebook piracy is a thing. Often done by the same professor who wrote the textbook.
I mean before ebooks we’re a thing. Like before music piracy was a thing.
It’s a rounding error… basically just politicians virtue signalling that they’re doing something.
I’m reminded of Leland Yee. California politician who was in favor of gun control all while doing gun running stuff himself. Guess he felt gun control was good for business.
Fast and furious…ATF gun running to the cartels…
You wouldn’t download a gun
Will they require a background check for CNC machines and lathes as well?
They’re eventually just going to demand you’re under AI monitored video surveillance at all times, even while bathing.
Kinky
I have no idea from this if the increase in ghost guns was attributable to 3D printing, or if the increase even represents a significant number.
It also seems like this would be really difficult to enforce. You can buy hardware or kits to build your own printer, or you can buy an old printer off someone else.
All that said, if it represents a reasonable concern and they figure out a way where it’s not trivially circumvented (both of which seem unlikely), I really couldn’t care less about a background check.
A big part of the increase in “ghost guns” is that New York’s definition of “ghost gun” includes not only the scratch made guns that most people think of as “ghost guns” but also any gun without an easily read serial number. So regular guns with obliterated serial numbers count as “ghost guns” in New York.
Holy shit, it would be so funny if this started an 80% 3D printer market.
No need. You can buy ALL of the parts off the shelf for a 3D printer and assemble it yourself. None are regulated (Aluminum rails, motors, arduino controllers, LCD panels, Power supplies, heating elements, thermistors, wiring). Strictly speaking there’s nothing about a non-resin 3d Printer you can’t procure and build yourself. And you can even 3d Print the housings to make it look nice once you’ve assembled it. Oh… and the designs and parts are largely open source.
Whats next? Criminal background check to buy cutlery for your kitchen?
By that logic, they should ban water pipes to stop people from making water pipe shotguns
Gotta stop those guns made from kids. (Per the first image caption in the article).
A ghost gun is displayed before the start of an event about gun violence in the Rose Garden of the White House April 11, 2022 in Washington, DC. Biden announced a new firearm regulation aimed at reining in ghost guns, untraceable, unregulated weapons made from kids. Biden also announced Steve Dettelbach as his nominee to lead the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives
In a country where 13 year olds have access to guns.
Anything to regulate and restrict the people/end users but not address any real problems in society.
Go after the gun companies, gun lobbies, NRA? No, never. Address housing, income, and educational inequality? That sounds complicated, tough, and expensive.
This has similar vibes to shaming/regulating people for using too much water in their showers and for washing their cars, but when a multi-billion dollar oil company spills millions of gallons of crude into the sea causing years of environmental damage due to negligence, fine them a few million dollars and tell them they’ve been very naughty…
So tired of politicians being in the pocket of Capitalist scumbags.
Ah, USA… The land of the free XD
deleted by creator
So it’s almost like the guns are the issue 😩 I can’t believe this