A recently released document from the FBI indicates anti-fascists are as violent as those who would overthrow the U.S. government
A recently released Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) document titled “Domestic Terrorism Symbols Guide”* links common protest symbols to “terrorism” — another marker in a common theme of conflating militant protest for social justice with deadly terrorist violence within the United States. Groups like the American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU) and the Brennan Center have raised warnings about such documents, citing inadequate protections for people’s constitutional rights.
Included is information on “Animal Rights Violent Extremists”, “Anarchist Violent Extremists”, & “Militia Violent Extremists”. Each starts like this:
(U) SUMMARY: The following symbols and phrases are sometimes used by anti-government or anti-authority violent extremists, specifically anarchist violent
extremists (AVEs). AVE symbols are often found on online platforms, in propaganda, and as graffiti. Some common themes for AVE symbols include images and stylized rhetoric conveying anti-capitalist, anti-fascist, or anti-government or anti-law enforcement sentiment.
Although the majority of criminal activity by AVEs violates state or local laws, some crimes may be investigated and prosecuted at the federal level.
The use or sharing of these symbols or phrases alone should not independently be considered evidence of AVE presence or affiliation or serve as an indicator of illegal activity. Additionally, some individuals use such references for their original, historic meaning, or other non-violent purposes.
The FBI does not investigate, co!lect, or maintain information solely for the purposes of monitoring activities protected by the First Amendment.
I think there’s more nuance on the topic than you’re implying. While there’s no actual group called antifa, there are plenty of groups who oppose far right ideology (i.e. anti-fascist/antifa). Some of these groups have definitely become heavily armed and radicalized. I don’t support fascists, but I also don’t support radicalized zealots of any creed. Does that make me a fascist?
No, it makes you a person that probably won’t do squat to stop fascists.
It’s no coincidence wthat it’s only radicals that show up to physically confront fascists while the so-called “enlightened centrists” do nothing but heckle from the sidelines.
As someone who’s been in several combat zones with the US military (honorably discharged 10 years ago), I can safely say I do not want my backyard turning into one. So pardon me while I wait for all peaceful options to be utterly exhausted before getting gun-happy and LARPing with others in fatigues while shouting for armed resistance.
If MAGAs or any other “militia” begins marching down my street, I’ll sure as shit meet it with force. But until then or an outright coup, I’ll continue advocating for peace
My stance on Jan 6 was had it been successful and Trump was installed as president, it would have been up to people like you to actually resist the new tyrannical government.
Because at that point, democracy was usurped and the necessary peace transfer of power was ignored for a violent insurrection.
The problem is that J6 was a test run. It was not successful because people with morals, many of whom were registered Republicans, stood firm and said this isn’t right. Many of these people have been replaced over the last three years to make stealing an election easier at a state level so that they won’t need to steal it at the federal level.
I’m not saying there aren’t peaceful options. But one side has already decided that peace is not an option. They showed that they will have their form of government, by force if necessary.
Nobody’s asking you to break out the claymore mines just yet… it’s the fascists that are escalating the lethality, not the “scary radical left” opposing them.
It’s usually a good idea to try and stop the fash before they march down your street… by the time they do, the politicians might just have decided to hand them the keys to the tanks - which they will, eventually.
But confronting fascists is good optics for them. They want to be able to point to shit like that to show how oPpReSsEd they are for their oPiNIoNs. It’s fuel. Ignore the marches. A news article covering a bunny of dudes waving nazi flags and nobody giving a shit is infinitely optically better than a brawl between nazis and antifa.
Anyone who believes that understands nothing about fascism at all. The pretense of “unopposable strength” is literally the only reason they will show themselves in public - if you don’t oppose it forcefully they win by default.
A news article covering a bunny of dudes waving nazi flags
The media will happily ignore fascism. After all, the rich media bosses know who it is that will protect their precious private property for them, just like all the rich people do… that is why they fund fascists - there is no such thing as “grassroots fascism”. The fact that antifa’s resistance meant they couldn’t is literally one of the reasons the US’s secret police is now seeing antifa as a threat to the status quo.
Ignoring fascism is no different than ignoring climate change - doing so doesn’t make it go away.
What do you think was more optically advantageous for the left, a bunch of patriot front idiots getting arrested just for marching, or antifa and the proud boys brawling?
We’re not at the point of civil war. Optics are still more important than punching them.
Actually, portraying your enemy as both strong and weak is crucial to fascism. To nazis, the jews were simultaneously subhuman and also in control of the world. To the alt right, the left is simultaneously soy boy beta cucks and nazi punching radicals. If you remove yourself from their narrative, it fails apart. And instead of brave defenders of western culture under attack from crazy leftist extremists, they simply become weird motherfuckers waving nazi flags in (current year).
I’m not gonna say don’t punch nazis, but don’t do it in an organized fashion at a rally where they hope to provoke a reaction.
The problem is that letting fascist types run rampant and hoping they’ll just go away historically doesn’t tend to work out well.
I live in Portland. Up until 2021 or so fascists, proud boys, Patriot prayer, etc. All ran rampant in cahoots with local law enforcement. People were menaced, paintballed, attacked and all that. It sucked. The sniveling mayor begged those groups not to come in (they’re never local) and act like that. Shockingly they did anyway.
It was unpleasant, but it worked. Those assholes haven’t tried to have their gatherings here in a couple of years. Self described antifa groups are still on edge but have largely diminished in activity. You don’t see antifa rallies designed to menace going out to the surrounding small towns where those assholes largely come from. Unless you’re sporting some obviously fash flair pretty much everyone gets left alone in town.
While I’d prefer peaceful resolutions to our problems, I fully understand why left leaning groups are becoming more radicalized. There is little compromise with the theocrats who want to eliminate or subjugate various minority and underrepresented groups within our society, continually hand more and more power to corporations, wholeheartedly believe the end of days is coming once Israel fully takes control of the holy land, and will scream “Second Amendment” and “Crisis Actors” every time kids are killed in school shootings. They violently stormed the US Capitol many of whole had intent to kill Senators and Representatives.
There is no compromise or peaceful resolution with people who want to hurt you or worse because their pastor said you’re a demonic sinner who must be cleansed from the earth.
Only if you’re dumb enough to just assume whatever a group titles themselves actually reflects their beliefs.
Do you think the Nazis were socialist? How about the Soviets?
You can call yourself whatever you want, if your group is anti fascist and acts in an authoritarian manner, then you’re the same thing with a different economic outlook.
Calling antifa a terrorist organization because in another universe an organization sharing the name could be bad is like banning ice cream because it could be made out of maggots.
Damn, it’s like you didn’t even understand literally my entire comment.
Capitalist authoritarianism and socialist/communist authoritarianism are both the same thing, using terms like fascism to pretend it’s different is the problem.
If you use authoritarian means to get your way you are only different from fascism economically. If you aren’t authoritarian then you’re not going to support any group regardless of what they refer to themselves as or what they consider the opposition to be called.
If a group tries to violently overthrow a system then yes they’re authoritarian. Shouldn’t be that hard to piece together.
Last time I checked anarchy involves the destruction of all systems of economics and government because people aren’t smart enough to realize that’s a fucking delusionally stupid idea.
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Direct link to the document in question:
https://unicornriot.ninja/wp-content/uploads/2023/11/DomesticTerrorismSymbolsGuidePart01-ocr.pdf
Included is information on “Animal Rights Violent Extremists”, “Anarchist Violent Extremists”, & “Militia Violent Extremists”. Each starts like this:
Labelling Antifa as a terrorist group is basically admitting you are a fascist.
I think there’s more nuance on the topic than you’re implying. While there’s no actual group called antifa, there are plenty of groups who oppose far right ideology (i.e. anti-fascist/antifa). Some of these groups have definitely become heavily armed and radicalized. I don’t support fascists, but I also don’t support radicalized zealots of any creed. Does that make me a fascist?
No, it makes you a person that probably won’t do squat to stop fascists.
It’s no coincidence wthat it’s only radicals that show up to physically confront fascists while the so-called “enlightened centrists” do nothing but heckle from the sidelines.
As someone who’s been in several combat zones with the US military (honorably discharged 10 years ago), I can safely say I do not want my backyard turning into one. So pardon me while I wait for all peaceful options to be utterly exhausted before getting gun-happy and LARPing with others in fatigues while shouting for armed resistance.
If MAGAs or any other “militia” begins marching down my street, I’ll sure as shit meet it with force. But until then or an outright coup, I’ll continue advocating for peace
My stance on Jan 6 was had it been successful and Trump was installed as president, it would have been up to people like you to actually resist the new tyrannical government.
Because at that point, democracy was usurped and the necessary peace transfer of power was ignored for a violent insurrection.
The problem is that J6 was a test run. It was not successful because people with morals, many of whom were registered Republicans, stood firm and said this isn’t right. Many of these people have been replaced over the last three years to make stealing an election easier at a state level so that they won’t need to steal it at the federal level.
I’m not saying there aren’t peaceful options. But one side has already decided that peace is not an option. They showed that they will have their form of government, by force if necessary.
Nobody’s asking you to break out the claymore mines just yet… it’s the fascists that are escalating the lethality, not the “scary radical left” opposing them.
It’s usually a good idea to try and stop the fash before they march down your street… by the time they do, the politicians might just have decided to hand them the keys to the tanks - which they will, eventually.
But confronting fascists is good optics for them. They want to be able to point to shit like that to show how oPpReSsEd they are for their oPiNIoNs. It’s fuel. Ignore the marches. A news article covering a bunny of dudes waving nazi flags and nobody giving a shit is infinitely optically better than a brawl between nazis and antifa.
Absolutely not.
Anyone who believes that understands nothing about fascism at all. The pretense of “unopposable strength” is literally the only reason they will show themselves in public - if you don’t oppose it forcefully they win by default.
The media will happily ignore fascism. After all, the rich media bosses know who it is that will protect their precious private property for them, just like all the rich people do… that is why they fund fascists - there is no such thing as “grassroots fascism”. The fact that antifa’s resistance meant they couldn’t is literally one of the reasons the US’s secret police is now seeing antifa as a threat to the status quo.
Ignoring fascism is no different than ignoring climate change - doing so doesn’t make it go away.
What do you think was more optically advantageous for the left, a bunch of patriot front idiots getting arrested just for marching, or antifa and the proud boys brawling?
We’re not at the point of civil war. Optics are still more important than punching them.
Actually, portraying your enemy as both strong and weak is crucial to fascism. To nazis, the jews were simultaneously subhuman and also in control of the world. To the alt right, the left is simultaneously soy boy beta cucks and nazi punching radicals. If you remove yourself from their narrative, it fails apart. And instead of brave defenders of western culture under attack from crazy leftist extremists, they simply become weird motherfuckers waving nazi flags in (current year).
I’m not gonna say don’t punch nazis, but don’t do it in an organized fashion at a rally where they hope to provoke a reaction.
it seems the less energic options are already exhausted.
i dont want to be on the receiving end of state violence either but i dont think things can change by simply voting or protesting anymore.
this doesnt necessarily mean violence but we must change our strategy.
Downvoted because veteran
Please shut up.
Oh give it a break.
Yup. Or when anyone tries to do anything they will just come up with reasons why it’s wrong.
The media was quick to forget that they were literally trying to criminalize the wearing of masks before Covid hit because “Antifa Scary.”
So, yeah.
The problem is that letting fascist types run rampant and hoping they’ll just go away historically doesn’t tend to work out well.
I live in Portland. Up until 2021 or so fascists, proud boys, Patriot prayer, etc. All ran rampant in cahoots with local law enforcement. People were menaced, paintballed, attacked and all that. It sucked. The sniveling mayor begged those groups not to come in (they’re never local) and act like that. Shockingly they did anyway.
Portland fought back
It was unpleasant, but it worked. Those assholes haven’t tried to have their gatherings here in a couple of years. Self described antifa groups are still on edge but have largely diminished in activity. You don’t see antifa rallies designed to menace going out to the surrounding small towns where those assholes largely come from. Unless you’re sporting some obviously fash flair pretty much everyone gets left alone in town.
Both sides are not the same
Yeah, actually, it kinda does.
While I’d prefer peaceful resolutions to our problems, I fully understand why left leaning groups are becoming more radicalized. There is little compromise with the theocrats who want to eliminate or subjugate various minority and underrepresented groups within our society, continually hand more and more power to corporations, wholeheartedly believe the end of days is coming once Israel fully takes control of the holy land, and will scream “Second Amendment” and “Crisis Actors” every time kids are killed in school shootings. They violently stormed the US Capitol many of whole had intent to kill Senators and Representatives.
There is no compromise or peaceful resolution with people who want to hurt you or worse because their pastor said you’re a demonic sinner who must be cleansed from the earth.
So would you label “maga” as heavily armed and radicalised?
FTFY.
But anti fascist are fascist. we must lock them up and … \s
Only if you’re dumb enough to just assume whatever a group titles themselves actually reflects their beliefs.
Do you think the Nazis were socialist? How about the Soviets?
You can call yourself whatever you want, if your group is anti fascist and acts in an authoritarian manner, then you’re the same thing with a different economic outlook.
Yes but antifa is anti fascist.
Calling antifa a terrorist organization because in another universe an organization sharing the name could be bad is like banning ice cream because it could be made out of maggots.
Damn, it’s like you didn’t even understand literally my entire comment.
Capitalist authoritarianism and socialist/communist authoritarianism are both the same thing, using terms like fascism to pretend it’s different is the problem.
If you use authoritarian means to get your way you are only different from fascism economically. If you aren’t authoritarian then you’re not going to support any group regardless of what they refer to themselves as or what they consider the opposition to be called.
An anarchist group is authoritarian? What are you smoking.
If a group tries to violently overthrow a system then yes they’re authoritarian. Shouldn’t be that hard to piece together.
Last time I checked anarchy involves the destruction of all systems of economics and government because people aren’t smart enough to realize that’s a fucking delusionally stupid idea.
This comedy sketch illustrates with literally just one example how ridiculous the idea of not having some kind of meta structure to handle human needs is.
Where do they rank on the list compared to Juggalos?
Juggalos are basically irrelevant now.
Were they relevant when the FBI categorized them as a gang?
Juggalos are violent extremists now, too?
well yah fbi and langely will be the first to burn once the revolution begins