Looking into Matrix…(again apparently because I had an account already logged in on element) I hate to say it but, I can’t forsee myself ever using that. It’s waaay too complicated while simplistic at the same time. There is a permission system but, this is more similar to IRC then discord. Graphics wise it’s super basic and easy to use, but I can forsee that being way too much of a pain to moderate or administrate on.
I expect there probally is, I only briefly looked at the integration system and the bridge system nothing really caught my eye but it would make sense that since they’re looking for more IRC feel that most of your basic moderation perms would be through a bot of some sort kinda like how chanserv was
I would say it’s a lot more than discord. Putting it that way doesn’t give it as much credit as it deserves. My favorite out of the laundry list of features and benefits is that you can synchronize your messaging across all platforms into a single interoperable client if your choosing. You can use a better standard while not having to bug others to switch.
It integrates with jitsi, which is a fairly good tried and proven solution. Meanwhile, The matrix developers are working on their own implementation of voice and video that plays a bit nicer with their room permission system. For one to one conversations, there is a turn-based solution for voice and video.
Uh? You need a DB server/service, and it’s basically a python script that runs in a venv, which can be easily setup on anything vaguely linux related. If you don’t want to bother with the command to setup a venv, there’s also a docker image I believe.
We set that up in an emergency when covid restrictions showed up and so far the worst issue we have is sometime the client takes a few minutes to refresh after long breaks.
The average person does not self-host services yet. And if that comes to be, then yes, it will be common knowledge at that point.
There’s also a fairly comprehensive documentation to get anyone with basic knowledge started.
Same. We had three developers try to make it work for a local makerspace and we failed. The default instructions are too complex ATM. I want to make it work sometime but that experience makes me want to wait. I only have so many weekends.
Ain’t that the truth, IRC was arguably the easiest service for me to set up, it had all the defaults basically set I think I only have the change one or two settijgs and open the ports, anything else was optional and it came with all the bells and whistles (of what you can get out of IRC… lol)
The great thing, you actually don’t have to.
There are so called bridges which can simply bridge your friends into your matrix chat.
I for example can talk to all my whatsapp, discord and signal contacts from the same app.
Very convenient.
I basically quit discord when notifications completely broke after the mandatory name change. Nothing I do has any effect. It’ll simply never beep again.
I managed to get most of my co-mods to Matrix. We set up a bot to notify us what’s up. All was good for a while.
Then the bot broke and is moving to Discord, and now my Matrix clients are giving me problems with notifications too.
matrix isn’t a fediverse thing, it’s its own thing. it does happen to be decentralized, like the fediverse.
matrix isn’t an alternative to discord. it’s an alternative to whatsapp/signal/telegram/etc.
matrix is nice (I use it with my friend group), but it’s not perfect. we’re looking for something better.
if you’re looking for a decentralized, self-hosted, open-source, secure alternative for discord, my friends and I use Mumble. It works great for VoIP (and its noise cancellation software actually seems to work noticeably better than Discord’s), but it doesn’t really have the advanced text chat features that Discord does. We make do with Matrix.
Well, if you host a server, you can either host it on the cloud (which costs $$$), or you can host it by yourself (if you have a spare computer that you can just use as a server). If you host it yourself, all you’re really paying is the same stuff you already pay — internet and electricity.
Hosting a server for something like mumble, matrix, or lemmy only has the costs I mentioned above.
matrix isn’t an alternative to discord. it’s an alternative to whatsapp/signal/telegram/etc
Yes and no.
Matrix is a communication standard. More like SMTP, RSS or XMPP than those things. I don’t know why Matrix specifically has this problem because you’ll never see anyone say “I’ve joined ActivityPub”.
Element is by far and away the most popular Matrix client (similar to how Mastodon is the most popular ActivityPub software) and it has “Spaces”, which functions similar to Discord “servers” (not actually servers). Better in some ways but mostly worse. Namely in terms of stability and the function of “spaces” specifically.
While it’s true people don’t say “I’ve joined ActivityPub”, isn’t that synonymous with “I’ve joined the Fediverse”? Besides, the organization behind it does market it that way — they themselves refer to it as “joining Matrix, using one of these clients” (Element, Fluffychat, etc). Like, that’s what their website is called, and so is the Matrix server they host.
Their centralization is, I think, a little more advanced than Mastodon’s. The organization that maintains the protocol regularly adds features to it, and then of course immediately updates their own client and server implementations to have those same, recently added features, meaning the other client and server implementations are always behind on at least a few features. It’s becoming reminiscent of how the web browser spec is so bloated, and gets new stuff added to it with such regularity, that new browsers are basically impractical.
It’s a bot that allows multiple people sharing an account to appear as though they each had their own pfp and username, using webhooks. It’s mostly used by plural systems, which are groups of people who live in the same head. You assign a proxy to each member, which might be something like prefacing your message with a certain emoji, and whenever you type a message using that proxy (prefacing with that emoji), PluralKit deletes your account’s message and gets a webhook with a name and pfp of your choice to re-send the message. The bot makes it way easier to talk to a plural system and know who’s speaking.
Here’s a great and beginner-friendly article on the topic of secure (and private) messaging and why Matrix currently doesn’t fit there:
https://proton.me/blog/whatsapp-alternatives
No I think that’s correct. Comparing it to Discord is a bit of a stretch. Just the UI is similar to Dirscord with the rooms and Spaces. Function wise it’s an alternative to Telegram or Whatsapp. Most of the most used functions (at least for me) are not present in any Matrix client.
Personally I don’t think it’s quite there yet. Element is probably the best Matrix app but not quite at parity for ease of use to a regular user and the general design and feel of discord is better… For now
I believe it will get there though. We’ve seen the enshittification cycle happen so many times to chat apps historically it’s basically the most inevitable that discord will collapse eventually. Is anyone still using AIM? MSN? Case in point.
I definitely don’t think element is the best but yes it’s not there yet. Honestly the performance has gotten a lot better but I’m still waiting for VoIP.
A punishment is only effective if you can avoid it by being good. A company needs to know that if goes against its users they’ll leave. If the exodus is going to happen anyway, just because it’s a commercial company and not as a response to any actual violation (or trend of violations), the company has no incentive not to exploit the remaining users.
You are not logged in. However you can subscribe from another Fediverse account, for example Lemmy or Mastodon. To do this, paste the following into the search field of your instance: !technology@lemmy.world
This is a most excellent place for technology news and articles.
There is an upcoming foss client called spacebar / fosscord
Yeah, not happening
Not really, there’s no categories and it’s just not Discord
Categories? What do you mean by that?
Discord can sort channels in various categories rather than all in one list for organization.
Matrix has the “spaces” concept.
I know, but the channels can’t be separated into categories.
You just create sub-spaces.
Matrix has spaces that are just like Discord servers if that’s what you mean
Looking into Matrix…(again apparently because I had an account already logged in on element) I hate to say it but, I can’t forsee myself ever using that. It’s waaay too complicated while simplistic at the same time. There is a permission system but, this is more similar to IRC then discord. Graphics wise it’s super basic and easy to use, but I can forsee that being way too much of a pain to moderate or administrate on.
I actually find it nice compared to discord. It’s simple. If you need more complex moderation in matrix, there are bots you can use
I expect there probally is, I only briefly looked at the integration system and the bridge system nothing really caught my eye but it would make sense that since they’re looking for more IRC feel that most of your basic moderation perms would be through a bot of some sort kinda like how chanserv was
I would say it’s a lot more than discord. Putting it that way doesn’t give it as much credit as it deserves. My favorite out of the laundry list of features and benefits is that you can synchronize your messaging across all platforms into a single interoperable client if your choosing. You can use a better standard while not having to bug others to switch.
But does it have activity detection and screen sharing?
Element does have screen sharing.
If you delve the bridges available, some support activity, some do not
Try Mirotalk when you need simple screen sharing. It uses browser based tech so no server/app/plugin required. https://p2p.mirotalk.com/
People say this but there are a few features, particularly robust voice chat, that it could use before any kind of mass adoption will happen.
It integrates with jitsi, which is a fairly good tried and proven solution. Meanwhile, The matrix developers are working on their own implementation of voice and video that plays a bit nicer with their room permission system. For one to one conversations, there is a turn-based solution for voice and video.
This is what I’m referring to and am looking forward to trying it out once it’s ready.
I just had to go and look this up to get more details
https://matrix.org/ecosystem/bridges/
Looks like you need to be hosting your own server, then you can install plugins for separate services. Very cool…
I’d love to tie together a few different systems I’m using but I worry that the bridges will break every time a platform does an update
Have long have you been using it? How’s your experience been? What bridges are you using?
I actually been hearing a lot about matrix recently…I someone needs to do live a viral video about it to make it be standard
https://mattermost.com/ is the closest open source self-hostable alternative to Slack/Discord I’m familiar with
It is unfortunately such a PITA to self host. Spent hours a few weeks ago trying to set it up and failed.
Uh? You need a DB server/service, and it’s basically a python script that runs in a venv, which can be easily setup on anything vaguely linux related. If you don’t want to bother with the command to setup a venv, there’s also a docker image I believe. We set that up in an emergency when covid restrictions showed up and so far the worst issue we have is sometime the client takes a few minutes to refresh after long breaks.
Because everything you said is common knowledge to the average person.
The average person does not self-host services yet. And if that comes to be, then yes, it will be common knowledge at that point. There’s also a fairly comprehensive documentation to get anyone with basic knowledge started.
Bro you’ve just got to disentangle the gigabytes on the flux stack mainframe bro, it’s easy bro
I tried to run it with the docker image. Still a PITA. I’m not a noob when it comes to self hosting services.
Same. We had three developers try to make it work for a local makerspace and we failed. The default instructions are too complex ATM. I want to make it work sometime but that experience makes me want to wait. I only have so many weekends.
IRC is still a thing.
Ain’t that the truth, IRC was arguably the easiest service for me to set up, it had all the defaults basically set I think I only have the change one or two settijgs and open the ports, anything else was optional and it came with all the bells and whistles (of what you can get out of IRC… lol)
Yep super easy. And if you had a third party client it’s even easier for others.
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You could always use Yunohost - it makes things much easier.
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This will be a harder sell than Lemmy because I need to convince my friends to move too
The great thing, you actually don’t have to. There are so called bridges which can simply bridge your friends into your matrix chat. I for example can talk to all my whatsapp, discord and signal contacts from the same app. Very convenient.
I need
What app is that? It’s matrix?
I basically quit discord when notifications completely broke after the mandatory name change. Nothing I do has any effect. It’ll simply never beep again.
I managed to get most of my co-mods to Matrix. We set up a bot to notify us what’s up. All was good for a while.
Then the bot broke and is moving to Discord, and now my Matrix clients are giving me problems with notifications too.
Modern computing definitely hates me.
matrix isn’t a fediverse thing, it’s its own thing. it does happen to be decentralized, like the fediverse.
matrix isn’t an alternative to discord. it’s an alternative to whatsapp/signal/telegram/etc.
matrix is nice (I use it with my friend group), but it’s not perfect. we’re looking for something better.
if you’re looking for a decentralized, self-hosted, open-source, secure alternative for discord, my friends and I use Mumble. It works great for VoIP (and its noise cancellation software actually seems to work noticeably better than Discord’s), but it doesn’t really have the advanced text chat features that Discord does. We make do with Matrix.
Hi! How much a matrix and mumble server costs?
Well, if you host a server, you can either host it on the cloud (which costs $$$), or you can host it by yourself (if you have a spare computer that you can just use as a server). If you host it yourself, all you’re really paying is the same stuff you already pay — internet and electricity.
Hosting a server for something like mumble, matrix, or lemmy only has the costs I mentioned above.
Yes and no.
Matrix is a communication standard. More like SMTP, RSS or XMPP than those things. I don’t know why Matrix specifically has this problem because you’ll never see anyone say “I’ve joined ActivityPub”.
Element is by far and away the most popular Matrix client (similar to how Mastodon is the most popular ActivityPub software) and it has “Spaces”, which functions similar to Discord “servers” (not actually servers). Better in some ways but mostly worse. Namely in terms of stability and the function of “spaces” specifically.
While it’s true people don’t say “I’ve joined ActivityPub”, isn’t that synonymous with “I’ve joined the Fediverse”? Besides, the organization behind it does market it that way — they themselves refer to it as “joining Matrix, using one of these clients” (Element, Fluffychat, etc). Like, that’s what their website is called, and so is the Matrix server they host.
Their centralization is, I think, a little more advanced than Mastodon’s. The organization that maintains the protocol regularly adds features to it, and then of course immediately updates their own client and server implementations to have those same, recently added features, meaning the other client and server implementations are always behind on at least a few features. It’s becoming reminiscent of how the web browser spec is so bloated, and gets new stuff added to it with such regularity, that new browsers are basically impractical.
The True selfhosted open source alternative to Discord are Mattermost and RocketChat. My friends and I use both
Does Mumble have an equivalent to PluralKit? PK is one of the biggest things keeping me and my friends on discord atm
what’s PluralKit?
tbh, Mumble pretty much just does voice chat and only voice chat, and just focuses on doing it well.
what’s PluralKit?
tbh, Mumble pretty much just does voice chat and only voice chat, and just focuses on doing it well.
It’s a bot that allows multiple people sharing an account to appear as though they each had their own pfp and username, using webhooks. It’s mostly used by plural systems, which are groups of people who live in the same head. You assign a proxy to each member, which might be something like prefacing your message with a certain emoji, and whenever you type a message using that proxy (prefacing with that emoji), PluralKit deletes your account’s message and gets a webhook with a name and pfp of your choice to re-send the message. The bot makes it way easier to talk to a plural system and know who’s speaking.
Matrix is a security nightmare. Everyone should stay clear from it till possible solutions are found for the ongoing concerns.
What are the ongoing concerns ?
Here’s a great and beginner-friendly article on the topic of secure (and private) messaging and why Matrix currently doesn’t fit there: https://proton.me/blog/whatsapp-alternatives
Thanks !
Never used it but I though Matrix was more an alternative to Messaging apps (like Telegram, Signal, …) than Discord. Am I wrong ?
No I think that’s correct. Comparing it to Discord is a bit of a stretch. Just the UI is similar to Dirscord with the rooms and Spaces. Function wise it’s an alternative to Telegram or Whatsapp. Most of the most used functions (at least for me) are not present in any Matrix client.
Personally I don’t think it’s quite there yet. Element is probably the best Matrix app but not quite at parity for ease of use to a regular user and the general design and feel of discord is better… For now
I believe it will get there though. We’ve seen the enshittification cycle happen so many times to chat apps historically it’s basically the most inevitable that discord will collapse eventually. Is anyone still using AIM? MSN? Case in point.
I remember how quickly furriea moved from groupme to telegram. Anyone remember skype or oovoo?
Honestly doscord not being shit already is impressive
I definitely don’t think element is the best but yes it’s not there yet. Honestly the performance has gotten a lot better but I’m still waiting for VoIP.
https://element.io/blog/introducing-native-matrix-voip-with-element-call/
If not element what do you prefer?
Cinny or fluffychat
Interesting. Last I tried Cinny it was behind Element. I’ll give it a look again. Haven’t tried Fluffy. Linux and mobile only?
ye basically, you can use flufflychat in the web browser as well
I think those were merged quite a while ago, right?
I feel like Rocket.chat would be the best Fediverse alterantive to Discord
Rocket.chat started using the Matrix protocol and became federated on June last year, so you can use both ;)
What did Discord do that warrens a mass migration to a federated alternative?
It’s proprietary
A punishment is only effective if you can avoid it by being good. A company needs to know that if goes against its users they’ll leave. If the exodus is going to happen anyway, just because it’s a commercial company and not as a response to any actual violation (or trend of violations), the company has no incentive not to exploit the remaining users.
A walking GDPR violation