While I definitely agree with you here, the systemic problem is in place due to an extreme overabundance of boomers sitting in Washington creating systematic problems and perpetuating existing ones. So, yes, not all boomers are culpable and blaming the whole generation is excessive, but perhaps this helps shed some light where the sentiment comes from.
Also, for most anyone after the boomer generation, retirement will be a complete financial impossibility so boomers inconveniencing their retirement for the sake of those who will never get to doesn’t feel too out of line
Boomers are more to vote for conservative and liberals, more to vote, and a bigger part of the population. That’s the truth of stats a’d demography. It’s not all boomers, but as a generation, they failed their grand-children. And it comes to bite them now, which is the biggest surprise to me. I really thought they wouldn’t see the collapse of the system or the global warming effects.
The irony is that people think that giving the government more power and more money will solve their problems… weird that 100 years ago when taxes were miniscule and government funding was too small, people were rich compared to today, and a single income was enough to fund a whole family.
The period of time 100 years ago is referred to as “The Roaring 20s” and it led to the Great Depression. In the 1950s we had a top marginal tax rate of 90% and that period saw the largest and wealthiest middle class we’ve ever had.
Couple oversimplifications there. “Roaring Twenties” were fed by the nascent Federal Reserve ballooning the economy through the 20s and an inevitable contraction occurring at the end with a huge regulatory clampdown, expansion of the state and prolonged low interest rates/inflation into the 40s. The “top marginal tax rates” were essentially base rates and the effective rates paid were close to half that. A more meaningful metric is federal spending as % of GDP by year:
which, taking into consideration that the economy has been growing in the last 80 years, indicates that federal spending has been gradually increasing ever since. The spike in the 40s is of course the enormous WWII spending. It’s also critical to take into advantage that the general state of technology/industrial infrastructure is light years ahead now than where it was at the beginning of the 20th century.
It’s pretty universally known that the entire working class has basically been left behind by economic growth since the 60s/70s, while government spending has continually increased since then, and simultaneously, corporate profits have also kept pace with economic growth. Which really begs the more important question, what specific mechanisms in our economy are actually producing these outcomes. I feel like people spend a ton of time arguing about things they think will curb the effect instead of asking why it’s happening in the first place.
Or in plain English: the system isn’t producing equality of ownership, or equality of proceeds from production/labor - why not? How can we fix that without just piping half the economy through the government? That’s the real question.
I don’t think it is the way forward to lay blame on our elders, or to be disrespectful towards any generation other than our own. Some people are stupid, some are not. Stupity is not dependent on age.
We all blunder through life and fuck up sometimes. Beeing smarter after the fact isn’t that much of an achievement.
Wrong way to see it, yeah the boomers are rich but a lot of Gen X are broke as shit too. Kids cost money, and with the direction the economy is going, it is just the sad reality we face.
I am extremely thankful for the help my parents have given me, my dad was broke as hell for most of my childhood despite working his ass off, and this was pre-2009 recession, the recession made it worse and it is only recent he is starting to get a real foothold on finances.
Millennials are between 25 and 40 years old now and you guys are still blaming “the system”?!
You guys ARE the system, at this point in time.
For fucks sakes, you should be well past the age of being in college and should have many years (nearing a couple of decades at this point in time for the older millennials) into the work force. You are also the single largest voting bloc, but you don’t exercise that power so even though Boomers are now a smaller group, they out-vote you by a wide margin making them more important. You still haven’t connected the dots that those who vote the most get the most attention from politicians?? There’s a reason why the rec center has a broken AC, but the senior bus has those expensive, cushy seats.
If you are still blaming anyone for your failures in life, you should be blaming yourselves. If the world isn’t the way you want, then get off your asses and be the change that you want to see. You are the largest generation, but you still act like a tiny minority group. Obama was in his mid 30s when he was elected to the Senate, and in his mid-to-late 40s when he was elected President. Yet as of 2 years ago, Millennials only represented about 6% of Congress. Are you expecting those seats to just be handed to you? Because that’s not how it works. That’s not how any of this works.
You guys are still acting like you’re some powerless 16 years old and still need to beg your mom to borrow the car on Friday night. Hell, even older Zoomers are in their mid 20s at this point in time and have little excuse for their woes.
The median age of voting House lawmakers is 57.9 years, down from 58.9 in the 117th Congress (2021-22), 58.0 in the 116th (2019-20) and 58.4 in the 115th (2017-18). The new Senate’s median age, on the other hand, is 65.3 years, up from 64.8 in the 117th Congress, 63.6 in the 116th and 62.4 in the 115th.
You sound more nieve than a preschooler. Another boomer aka elder todler trying to pretend their greed didn’t destroy this country and the planet. Why don’t you learn to read before you die instead of hoarding everything? Your dumbass generation made this country far too corrupt for voting to do shit at this point. The worse part is how fucking dumb most of you are.
i’m not saying “don’t put money into savings”, i’m saying every now and then, people should make a decision that benefits the world as a whole rather than just their personal financial situation.
boomers didn’t sacrifice their own spending to build their net worth, they sacrificed *public* spending to do it. and not just public spending, but things that are literally free. like, deciding nobody should ever be allowed to build more housing anywhere ever, because that makes their real estate investment go up.
A lot of people are in denial about the effects of policies they support.
Just look at the cost of housing. There’s a ton of NIMBY homeowners who are deep in denial that zoning huge swaths of cities to be exclusively mcmansions could possibly cause house prices to be artificially high.
As a NIMBY guy…I’m going to protect my investment. There’s plenty of affordable housing out there, it’s just not 10 minutes walking distance from an urban center.
I can go pay 20k cash and live in a trailer across town if I need to.
Edit: If you want to do it that way, you can rent said trailer for a pittance. I’d suggest you do, you won’t want to be there long.
Everyone wants low cost housing, no one actually wants to live in a low cost area.
Normally, the meaning of an investment is that they take a measure of effort, and sometimes, they don’t pan out.
But houses will always pan out, because everyone wants them, because they’re usually expected to go up in value, because everyone wants them, because they’re expected to go up in value, because…
Someday, mark my words, it’ll be a gold-buying bubble that bursts.
First off, housing isn’t a fucking investment. It’s a human’s basic need. Anyone thinking a roof over your head is an “investment” can fuck right off because your line of thinking IS the problem.
Which brings me back to the 20k trailer…it’s dirt fucking cheap. If you don’t think housing is an investment, you can easily afford rent or payments on 20k over 10 years with a minimum wage job.
However…I don’t see a lot of people scrambling for the “affordable” housing.
If you really want to socialize living space, there acres and acres of really empty, really cheap land in the fly over states. Grab an acre of land somewhere and you can house 100s of people on it.
Something tells me none of those options are appealing to you.
What will these differently-housed individuals do for income? Where will they work?
If they are in the middle nowhere as you claim, how will they physically get to their job? If they have to drive significant distances to get to these civic centers, then you have grossly underestimated the percentage of their income that would be slated for transportation.
Let’s do some math!
Your fantasy $20k trailer with your parameters, with an estimated $1000 initial cost for service connections would wind up being a bit more than $27k after APR adjustments.
Calculator
That winds up being $222 per month. What a steal!
Federal minimum wage is $7.25. Taxes are a thing, so $7.25 turns into $6.52.
An individual would have to work a bit more than 34 hours to afford just the dwelling.
We are assuming that this person is healthy, with nothing to prevent the individual from working.
Will this person have electricity? $122 or 18.7 hours
Will this person have clean water? $18 or 2.76 hours
Will this person require clothing?
Will this person have healthcare?
Will this person take any prescription medication?
Will this person have a dental plan?
Will this person pay for transportation (the vehicle, insurance, wear and tear, gas, and incidentals)?
Will this person support additional family members who are unable to work (children, elderly, injured, disabled)?
Will there be air conditioning and heating in this $20k trailer?
What will this person eat?
Going beyond the absolute basics:
What will this person do for entertainment? One cannot honestly expect a human to live without some form of stress relief.
Will this person have access to the internet? That is required for resume submission for almost every job.
What will this person save for retirement?
An individual would have to work a bit more than 34 hours to afford just the dwelling.
That’s reasonable…that’s around 1/4 of their income which is typically the guideline for housing if you want a savings account as well.
For reference, that’s roughly what I put in to afford my mortgage.
The rest of it is fluff “what ifs” and kind of out of context. We could’ve had universal income and health but people keep going with the safe choices on votes instead of the things we really need.
NIMBY isn’t even a good financial position. Think about it. Say your area is rezoned for mixed use and you start getting apartments and condos on top of store fronts. Land value will skyrocket and all likelihood, you will come out ahead. Ever wonder why Manhattan and DC real estate is so expensive?
Let me tell you a story, when I was looking for my house we found a gorgeous 6 bed 4 ba all brick house with like 3500 sq feet for around 250k…it’s an insane price for that house.
I looked at it and found out there’s a section 8 unit next door. After asking around it ends up the place gets robbed every 2 months and the sellers are trying to give it away.
It ended up going for 175k.
That’s should have been close to a million dollar piece of property…now it’s a mom and pop tax firm.
So then the apartments and condos become more expensive due to skyrocketing land values, not solving the problem of affordable housing? You can expand current low density zones with limited medium density without impacting values too much, but NIMBY concerns aren’t completely crazy. Either new zones are created for multifamily high density and medium density housing instead of opening single family low density zones for these projects, or we accept that as a society we are fine crushing a percentage of the middle class to solve housing for the lower classes. The top 10% may take a hit on real estate dips from rental properties, but not crippling. We can spread the damage slowly, but houses losing 10-30% value will cause a miniature 2008 wherever that happens.
This was caused by housing becoming a cornerstone step into and for remaining in the middle class instead of being a commodity like it was pre 1970/80. That probably wasn’t a good idea, but changing that removes the largest remaining leg of the middle class. All options moving forward will suck I think, and it will take a lot of work to resolve.
I’ve gotten tired of this whole “everyone from this generation thinks the same, acts the same, is poor/wealthy”, etc bullshit. The coincidence of your birthday doesn’t automatically identify you.
No. But we are all a combination of our biology plus our experiences. Bring born at the same time as someone means a significant portio of your experiences will be more similar than with someone born decades after you. The fact is that Zoomers went through a disruptive global pandemic either while still in education or leaving to start their careers. That experience will inform who each of those young people become. The way that this effects each individual Zoomer will vary but it will affect them and so it makes them a demographic of “people who’s education or early work experiences were disrupted by a pandemic.” Those people will on average be a little more similar to one another then people who didn’t experience that. Generational identities are formed by all the millions of experiences, big and small, those people have in common with one another but not with other generations by merit of being born at a particular time. Just as Zoomers went through a pandemic at a crucial early point of their lives the Greatest Generation endured the great depression and world war 2 in the first half of their lives. There’s absolutely no reasonable way to claim that living through world war 2 wouldn’t inform your personality and behaviour on some level. And so, people from the Greatest Generation (who lived through World War 2) will, due to that experience and many others, will have things in common with one another that they do not share in common with Zoomers (who didn’t live through World War 2.) Another huge example is that somewhere roughly alligned with the millennial generation we made the transition from people who grew up with constant easy access to the vast expanse of information and communication on the Internet and people who grew up before they’d ever heard of it. Those are hugely different experiences. They change the part of you that is due to your experiences. The other people who share those experiences will tend to have commonalities with you that people who didn’t share those experiences don’t have.
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While I definitely agree with you here, the systemic problem is in place due to an extreme overabundance of boomers sitting in Washington creating systematic problems and perpetuating existing ones. So, yes, not all boomers are culpable and blaming the whole generation is excessive, but perhaps this helps shed some light where the sentiment comes from.
Also, for most anyone after the boomer generation, retirement will be a complete financial impossibility so boomers inconveniencing their retirement for the sake of those who will never get to doesn’t feel too out of line
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Boomers are more to vote for conservative and liberals, more to vote, and a bigger part of the population. That’s the truth of stats a’d demography. It’s not all boomers, but as a generation, they failed their grand-children. And it comes to bite them now, which is the biggest surprise to me. I really thought they wouldn’t see the collapse of the system or the global warming effects.
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The irony is that people think that giving the government more power and more money will solve their problems… weird that 100 years ago when taxes were miniscule and government funding was too small, people were rich compared to today, and a single income was enough to fund a whole family.
The period of time 100 years ago is referred to as “The Roaring 20s” and it led to the Great Depression. In the 1950s we had a top marginal tax rate of 90% and that period saw the largest and wealthiest middle class we’ve ever had.
Couple oversimplifications there. “Roaring Twenties” were fed by the nascent Federal Reserve ballooning the economy through the 20s and an inevitable contraction occurring at the end with a huge regulatory clampdown, expansion of the state and prolonged low interest rates/inflation into the 40s. The “top marginal tax rates” were essentially base rates and the effective rates paid were close to half that. A more meaningful metric is federal spending as % of GDP by year:
which, taking into consideration that the economy has been growing in the last 80 years, indicates that federal spending has been gradually increasing ever since. The spike in the 40s is of course the enormous WWII spending. It’s also critical to take into advantage that the general state of technology/industrial infrastructure is light years ahead now than where it was at the beginning of the 20th century.
It’s pretty universally known that the entire working class has basically been left behind by economic growth since the 60s/70s, while government spending has continually increased since then, and simultaneously, corporate profits have also kept pace with economic growth. Which really begs the more important question, what specific mechanisms in our economy are actually producing these outcomes. I feel like people spend a ton of time arguing about things they think will curb the effect instead of asking why it’s happening in the first place.
Or in plain English: the system isn’t producing equality of ownership, or equality of proceeds from production/labor - why not? How can we fix that without just piping half the economy through the government? That’s the real question.
Unfortunately, they fucked around for us to find out. I don’t feel bad if they find out a little bit too.
what’s the point of having kids if you’re not gonna do anything for them the second they turn 18
I don’t think it is the way forward to lay blame on our elders, or to be disrespectful towards any generation other than our own. Some people are stupid, some are not. Stupity is not dependent on age. We all blunder through life and fuck up sometimes. Beeing smarter after the fact isn’t that much of an achievement.
Counter-argument: Most of them keep doubling down.
Nah, they voted for this shit. We wouldn’t have this problem if they didn’t vote for Reagan.
Wrong way to see it, yeah the boomers are rich but a lot of Gen X are broke as shit too. Kids cost money, and with the direction the economy is going, it is just the sad reality we face.
I am extremely thankful for the help my parents have given me, my dad was broke as hell for most of my childhood despite working his ass off, and this was pre-2009 recession, the recession made it worse and it is only recent he is starting to get a real foothold on finances.
Grow the fuck up.
Millennials are between 25 and 40 years old now and you guys are still blaming “the system”?!
You guys ARE the system, at this point in time.
For fucks sakes, you should be well past the age of being in college and should have many years (nearing a couple of decades at this point in time for the older millennials) into the work force. You are also the single largest voting bloc, but you don’t exercise that power so even though Boomers are now a smaller group, they out-vote you by a wide margin making them more important. You still haven’t connected the dots that those who vote the most get the most attention from politicians?? There’s a reason why the rec center has a broken AC, but the senior bus has those expensive, cushy seats.
If you are still blaming anyone for your failures in life, you should be blaming yourselves. If the world isn’t the way you want, then get off your asses and be the change that you want to see. You are the largest generation, but you still act like a tiny minority group. Obama was in his mid 30s when he was elected to the Senate, and in his mid-to-late 40s when he was elected President. Yet as of 2 years ago, Millennials only represented about 6% of Congress. Are you expecting those seats to just be handed to you? Because that’s not how it works. That’s not how any of this works.
You guys are still acting like you’re some powerless 16 years old and still need to beg your mom to borrow the car on Friday night. Hell, even older Zoomers are in their mid 20s at this point in time and have little excuse for their woes.
The median age of voting House lawmakers is 57.9 years, down from 58.9 in the 117th Congress (2021-22), 58.0 in the 116th (2019-20) and 58.4 in the 115th (2017-18). The new Senate’s median age, on the other hand, is 65.3 years, up from 64.8 in the 117th Congress, 63.6 in the 116th and 62.4 in the 115th.
You sound more nieve than a preschooler. Another boomer aka elder todler trying to pretend their greed didn’t destroy this country and the planet. Why don’t you learn to read before you die instead of hoarding everything? Your dumbass generation made this country far too corrupt for voting to do shit at this point. The worse part is how fucking dumb most of you are.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voter_suppression_in_the_United_States
alternate phrasing: boomers stuffed all their money in their bank accounts instead of building a world their kids could afford to live in.
Are you actually saying that saving instead of being in debt is a bad thing?
While I can agree about their failures, “don’t save it’s bad for the consumer economy” can go to hell.
You should be able to do a little of both.
i’m not saying “don’t put money into savings”, i’m saying every now and then, people should make a decision that benefits the world as a whole rather than just their personal financial situation.
boomers didn’t sacrifice their own spending to build their net worth, they sacrificed *public* spending to do it. and not just public spending, but things that are literally free. like, deciding nobody should ever be allowed to build more housing anywhere ever, because that makes their real estate investment go up.
If they stuffed into bank accounts instead of real estate, stocks, and businesses, the played capitalism wrong.
Good, perhaps the boomers will recognize how impossible the current structure is to live under and actually pay attention to what they are voting for…
Who am I kidding, that’s not going to happen 😭
A lot of them will recognize the problems, they just blame them on the wrong things.
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No they’ll just sit there continuing to pretend climate change isn’t happening
A lot of people are in denial about the effects of policies they support.
Just look at the cost of housing. There’s a ton of NIMBY homeowners who are deep in denial that zoning huge swaths of cities to be exclusively mcmansions could possibly cause house prices to be artificially high.
As a NIMBY guy…I’m going to protect my investment. There’s plenty of affordable housing out there, it’s just not 10 minutes walking distance from an urban center.
I can go pay 20k cash and live in a trailer across town if I need to.
Edit: If you want to do it that way, you can rent said trailer for a pittance. I’d suggest you do, you won’t want to be there long.
Everyone wants low cost housing, no one actually wants to live in a low cost area.
“Low Income.” “20k Cash.” Pick one.
Holy shit, you solved homelessness, good job! All we need is to have 20k in cash and then… wait.
You are trash.
Normally, the meaning of an investment is that they take a measure of effort, and sometimes, they don’t pan out.
But houses will always pan out, because everyone wants them, because they’re usually expected to go up in value, because everyone wants them, because they’re expected to go up in value, because…
Someday, mark my words, it’ll be a gold-buying bubble that bursts.
First off, housing isn’t a fucking investment. It’s a human’s basic need. Anyone thinking a roof over your head is an “investment” can fuck right off because your line of thinking IS the problem.
Which brings me back to the 20k trailer…it’s dirt fucking cheap. If you don’t think housing is an investment, you can easily afford rent or payments on 20k over 10 years with a minimum wage job.
However…I don’t see a lot of people scrambling for the “affordable” housing.
If you really want to socialize living space, there acres and acres of really empty, really cheap land in the fly over states. Grab an acre of land somewhere and you can house 100s of people on it.
Something tells me none of those options are appealing to you.
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Close to there actually. I see them go for that cheap all the time…It’s tempting as hell to liquidate everything and go buy one and retire.
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You have forgotten to factor in many things.
What will these differently-housed individuals do for income? Where will they work?
If they are in the middle nowhere as you claim, how will they physically get to their job? If they have to drive significant distances to get to these civic centers, then you have grossly underestimated the percentage of their income that would be slated for transportation.
Let’s do some math! Your fantasy $20k trailer with your parameters, with an estimated $1000 initial cost for service connections would wind up being a bit more than $27k after APR adjustments. Calculator That winds up being $222 per month. What a steal!
Federal minimum wage is $7.25. Taxes are a thing, so $7.25 turns into $6.52. An individual would have to work a bit more than 34 hours to afford just the dwelling.
We are assuming that this person is healthy, with nothing to prevent the individual from working.
Will this person have electricity? $122 or 18.7 hours Will this person have clean water? $18 or 2.76 hours Will this person require clothing? Will this person have healthcare?
Will this person take any prescription medication? Will this person have a dental plan? Will this person pay for transportation (the vehicle, insurance, wear and tear, gas, and incidentals)? Will this person support additional family members who are unable to work (children, elderly, injured, disabled)? Will there be air conditioning and heating in this $20k trailer?
What will this person eat?
Going beyond the absolute basics: What will this person do for entertainment? One cannot honestly expect a human to live without some form of stress relief. Will this person have access to the internet? That is required for resume submission for almost every job. What will this person save for retirement?
That’s reasonable…that’s around 1/4 of their income which is typically the guideline for housing if you want a savings account as well.
For reference, that’s roughly what I put in to afford my mortgage.
The rest of it is fluff “what ifs” and kind of out of context. We could’ve had universal income and health but people keep going with the safe choices on votes instead of the things we really need.
A quarter of their income for housing…for a fictitious $20k used manufactured home. Mind you, we never included the taxes or the rental or owned land.
And the other items are not fluff. One has to be fed and clothed.
And since you opened the door, what do you pay for your mortgage?
Yes, because all the jobs are in the middle of the woods somewhere.
NIMBY isn’t even a good financial position. Think about it. Say your area is rezoned for mixed use and you start getting apartments and condos on top of store fronts. Land value will skyrocket and all likelihood, you will come out ahead. Ever wonder why Manhattan and DC real estate is so expensive?
Now look at home prices next to low cost areas…
Let me tell you a story, when I was looking for my house we found a gorgeous 6 bed 4 ba all brick house with like 3500 sq feet for around 250k…it’s an insane price for that house.
I looked at it and found out there’s a section 8 unit next door. After asking around it ends up the place gets robbed every 2 months and the sellers are trying to give it away.
It ended up going for 175k.
That’s should have been close to a million dollar piece of property…now it’s a mom and pop tax firm.
So then the apartments and condos become more expensive due to skyrocketing land values, not solving the problem of affordable housing? You can expand current low density zones with limited medium density without impacting values too much, but NIMBY concerns aren’t completely crazy. Either new zones are created for multifamily high density and medium density housing instead of opening single family low density zones for these projects, or we accept that as a society we are fine crushing a percentage of the middle class to solve housing for the lower classes. The top 10% may take a hit on real estate dips from rental properties, but not crippling. We can spread the damage slowly, but houses losing 10-30% value will cause a miniature 2008 wherever that happens.
This was caused by housing becoming a cornerstone step into and for remaining in the middle class instead of being a commodity like it was pre 1970/80. That probably wasn’t a good idea, but changing that removes the largest remaining leg of the middle class. All options moving forward will suck I think, and it will take a lot of work to resolve.
reaping what one sows comes to mind
or the classic ‘well, well, well, if it isn’t the consequences of my own actions!’
It’s a result of weak parenting.
It’s a result of zoning laws and car dependent cities driving up housing costs and lack of socialized programs for basic needs like healthcare
Young men keep voting against their interest for liberals makes this part of their fault. Ask Canadians about it.
Oh, I’m sorry, of course…it’s OUR fault that we’re broke!
Ummm yes. Do better.
I’ve gotten tired of this whole “everyone from this generation thinks the same, acts the same, is poor/wealthy”, etc bullshit. The coincidence of your birthday doesn’t automatically identify you.
No. But we are all a combination of our biology plus our experiences. Bring born at the same time as someone means a significant portio of your experiences will be more similar than with someone born decades after you. The fact is that Zoomers went through a disruptive global pandemic either while still in education or leaving to start their careers. That experience will inform who each of those young people become. The way that this effects each individual Zoomer will vary but it will affect them and so it makes them a demographic of “people who’s education or early work experiences were disrupted by a pandemic.” Those people will on average be a little more similar to one another then people who didn’t experience that. Generational identities are formed by all the millions of experiences, big and small, those people have in common with one another but not with other generations by merit of being born at a particular time. Just as Zoomers went through a pandemic at a crucial early point of their lives the Greatest Generation endured the great depression and world war 2 in the first half of their lives. There’s absolutely no reasonable way to claim that living through world war 2 wouldn’t inform your personality and behaviour on some level. And so, people from the Greatest Generation (who lived through World War 2) will, due to that experience and many others, will have things in common with one another that they do not share in common with Zoomers (who didn’t live through World War 2.) Another huge example is that somewhere roughly alligned with the millennial generation we made the transition from people who grew up with constant easy access to the vast expanse of information and communication on the Internet and people who grew up before they’d ever heard of it. Those are hugely different experiences. They change the part of you that is due to your experiences. The other people who share those experiences will tend to have commonalities with you that people who didn’t share those experiences don’t have.