That argument can be made about the tax incentives.
However, regulations about emissions are intrinsically something we want, and we shouldn’t hold back on that just because gas cars can’t get to the level of emissions we need.
It’s too late. We’ve already hit the tipping point. Many of my neighbors have EVs now. They’re everywhere in my city and I’m not in a major city. They’re just plain better cars and now people know it. It’s too late.
In a statement, Kentucky Attorney General Russell Coleman accused President Biden of being “willing to sacrifice the American auto industry and its workers in service of its radical green agenda.”
If you look up the 10 most “Made in America” cars, the top 4 slots by a huge margin are Tesla Model 3,Y,S,X , which are all EVs, and they are at near 100% (or 100% for some models). There isn’t another American car brand on the list. So when Coleman is talking about sacrificing American auto workers, who’s he talking about? A car that is 40% American because all the parts are made in China or Mexico and there’s some final assembly done in the USA?
P.S. Musk is an idiot, though I’m not sure that needs to be said anymore as its so obvious.
“There is no future without electrification. But just electrification will not get us there,”
Daniel Posen is an associate professor in U of T’s department of civil and mineral engineering, and the Canada Research Chair in system-scale environmental impacts of energy and transport technologies. He agrees electrification is vital. But relying solely on electric vehicles to reduce carbon emissions from transportation may not be enough, especially if we want to do it in time to stop a catastrophic two-degree rise in global temperatures.
The article you link contradicts you, it clearly suggests that adoption of EVs reduce carbon emissions, but we still need to do more (e.g. ACTUALLY HAVE PUBLIC TRANSIT INFRASTRUCTURE) to prevent a climate catastrophe.
The point remains, Biden’s environmental policies will doom civilization.
I thought you were on a bit of thin ground before, but I was willing to hear you out. Yet you’ve jumped laying the entire history of blame of climate change at the current sitting president trying to address it. You’re forgiving 150 years of industrial pollution, but damning one element of a path to address it as the thing that will destroy humanity?
I just don’t think I have the will to try to drag you back to some semblance of rationality. Carry on with your in your personal bliss.
That’s all great, but the real thing that will stop it is economics. We have a PHEV and I calculated it out and we pay $8 per gallon equivalent compared to $5.50 for regular gas. That’s a pretty big difference. Right now we ignore the EV part of the vehicle. (Live in California and I pay $0.50/kwh.)
We’re planning on getting solar shortly and that may make it feasible, but until then, it’s not.
Is electric pricey where you are? It’s been a while since I calculated, but last I checked, electric was cheaper in my area than gas for most of the electric vehicles.
What kind of electric mileage do you get? My Bolt gets about 3.5 miles per kilowatt hour, and my electricity costs $0.12 per kWh. I figure a car like that would get about 30MPG if it were an ICE vehicle. To go 30 miles would take about 8.5 kWh, which would cost about a dollar. Yes, your electricity is 4x the price (ouch!) but 8x the gas equivalent?
We have a Volvo XC90. Much bigger (and probably heavier) than your Bolt. It gets ~26MPG on the gas only mode. It has an 18.8kWh battery and can go ~30 miles on a charge. So again, bigger, heavier, and less efficient. At $0.50 per kWh, it takes ~$9 for 30 miles, and ~$5.5 in gas to go 26 miles.
Not going to buy an EV. No charging stations nearby. Can’t install a charging station where I live. I probably have 10 years of driving left so I will stick with an ICE.
Seems like a good plan that’s right for your situation, but for all of our future, I hope that’s rare ten years from now.
For anyone in their own house, where it’s pretty straightforward to install a charger …. It’s damn nice to never again have to go to a local refueling station. Recharging your car can be just like your phone: plug it in overnight and it’s just always full.
Yeah, it can be a bit less convenient on a road trip, but 95+% time, plugging into your home charger is more convenient
While I like the idea, unfortuanlty, that is bad for the environment. We are better off driving them into recycling plants to put the battieires and other materials towards something useful.
You could easily argue the Hummer is symbolic of the problem with legacy manufacturer’s attempts at EVs, or at least the most extreme
Rather than create an EV anyone can afford, rather than design a vehicle around the needs of an EV, rather than care about any sort of efficiency …. Take a monster of excess and just keep adding thousands of pounds of batteries until it works. And you end up with more of a monster of excess: excessive price, excessive consumption of batteries/materials, excessive weight. You have a vehicle designed for people who values excess, made it even more excessive and expensive, and try to sell it to customers in the name of efficiency and reduced pollution. Of course it won’t work.
The weird part is, when you actually talk to a Conservative irl, they don’t care about EVs. Sure they might not like them—they might even think they’re a Political scheme or whatever. But they at least understand that there are more important things happening. Politicians failure to represent their user base’s viewpoint in the US is always astounding.
Hey, I agree with the sentiment but sex work is a respectable job unlike being a crooked as shit congress person ruining the future of countless people :)
Also being a slut is a respectable job too, the world runs on sluts like me.
EVs are being built to save the car industry not the planet. I’ll probably get an electric vehicle once the kinks get worked out but I know how the materials are acquired and what happens when the batteries can’t hold a charge. It’s a baby step but definitely shouldn’t be stopped from evolving.
Surely the oil and energy companies have their own investments into renewables. I can’t imagine why Rs would die on this hill except for their little culture war.
Because you can’t corner the renewables market like the oil markets have been. Also oil dependence means a constant need for oil. Solar panels or windmills are much more install and forget. So yeah, they can invest in oil alternatives, but they won’t make nearly as much money from it.
I’d argue the oil and gas industry, not auto. Lots of auto industry players like GM, Ford, Honda, Toyota are selling EV’s. There’s a market for them, people want them, there’s money on the table. Why would auto not want that.
You are not logged in. However you can subscribe from another Fediverse account, for example Lemmy or Mastodon. To do this, paste the following into the search field of your instance: !technology@lemmy.world
This is a most excellent place for technology news and articles.
IMO: If your post contains Political views and Technology, than then it should be posted in Politics and not Technology.
In my opinion, it should be posted in both because it’s relevant to both.
Not really, my technological interest has nothing to do with a political view. Especially when the “politics” are the sheepish “red vs blue”.
Are we in a “free market” or we not? The answer is “depends on what lobbyists want.”
To play devil’s advocate for a moment, is it really a free market if we are incentivizing one technology over another?
That argument can be made about the tax incentives.
However, regulations about emissions are intrinsically something we want, and we shouldn’t hold back on that just because gas cars can’t get to the level of emissions we need.
Free market goes to the highest bidder.
Free for me and not for thee.
Might as well be the offical preamble of the Constitution (or at least the more conventional “rules for thee, not for me”).
Not.
It’s too late. We’ve already hit the tipping point. Many of my neighbors have EVs now. They’re everywhere in my city and I’m not in a major city. They’re just plain better cars and now people know it. It’s too late.
Many decades ago, the US decimated parts of cities and a lot of railway infrastructure to make way for cars. It’s never too late to ruin something
If you look up the 10 most “Made in America” cars, the top 4 slots by a huge margin are Tesla Model 3,Y,S,X , which are all EVs, and they are at near 100% (or 100% for some models). There isn’t another American car brand on the list. So when Coleman is talking about sacrificing American auto workers, who’s he talking about? A car that is 40% American because all the parts are made in China or Mexico and there’s some final assembly done in the USA?
P.S. Musk is an idiot, though I’m not sure that needs to be said anymore as its so obvious.
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Got a source to back up your claim?
Here’s one contradicting it:
Gasoline demand growth to slow this year on EV growth in China, U.S.
“Penetration of electric vehicles has been increasing in U.S. and China,” said Woodmac analyst Sushant Gupta.
Both the USA and China subsidize EV sales (and also petroleum exploration and extraction for that matter).
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The article you link contradicts you, it clearly suggests that adoption of EVs reduce carbon emissions, but we still need to do more (e.g. ACTUALLY HAVE PUBLIC TRANSIT INFRASTRUCTURE) to prevent a climate catastrophe.
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@sub_ubi@lemmy.ml edited their post and changed their source. The old source cited was this:
" Can Electric Vehicles Save the Planet?"
Eliminating gas-powered cars and trucks may help avert a climate catastrophe. But they are only part of the solution https://magazine.utoronto.ca/research-ideas/can-electric-vehicles-save-the-planet/
That is the source that @force as quoting and replied to, and @force is right I was going to respond similarly after reading the original source.
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I thought you were on a bit of thin ground before, but I was willing to hear you out. Yet you’ve jumped laying the entire history of blame of climate change at the current sitting president trying to address it. You’re forgiving 150 years of industrial pollution, but damning one element of a path to address it as the thing that will destroy humanity?
I just don’t think I have the will to try to drag you back to some semblance of rationality. Carry on with your in your personal bliss.
That’s all great, but the real thing that will stop it is economics. We have a PHEV and I calculated it out and we pay $8 per gallon equivalent compared to $5.50 for regular gas. That’s a pretty big difference. Right now we ignore the EV part of the vehicle. (Live in California and I pay $0.50/kwh.)
We’re planning on getting solar shortly and that may make it feasible, but until then, it’s not.
Is electric pricey where you are? It’s been a while since I calculated, but last I checked, electric was cheaper in my area than gas for most of the electric vehicles.
It’s shockingly high. I live in the SF bay area and I’m a bit pissed off at how bad we’re getting screwed.
What kind of electric mileage do you get? My Bolt gets about 3.5 miles per kilowatt hour, and my electricity costs $0.12 per kWh. I figure a car like that would get about 30MPG if it were an ICE vehicle. To go 30 miles would take about 8.5 kWh, which would cost about a dollar. Yes, your electricity is 4x the price (ouch!) but 8x the gas equivalent?
We have a Volvo XC90. Much bigger (and probably heavier) than your Bolt. It gets ~26MPG on the gas only mode. It has an 18.8kWh battery and can go ~30 miles on a charge. So again, bigger, heavier, and less efficient. At $0.50 per kWh, it takes ~$9 for 30 miles, and ~$5.5 in gas to go 26 miles.
Congratulations, Elon. This is who you hitched your ugly Cybertruck wagon to.
I’d be game to buy one once he can figure out how to build the damn things at sufficient scale
Why? Have you read about them? They can’t go offroad properly, they rust, they have endless glitches…
Well I suspect once they are in scaled production that will largely be solved.
Why do you suspect that when other Tesla models are only marginally less shitty?
There are so many other EV options now and pretty much all of them are of higher quality. Some of them are cheaper.
Yes, we’re finally getting some choices. Next time you need to purchase a personal vehicle, please consider which EV is right for you.
There are reasons Teslas are still most popular, and you may benefit by figuring out why, rather than spout propaganda
They are still the most popular because they have the most hype, not because they are the best choice.
What pros and cons have you personally experienced?
Not going to buy an EV. No charging stations nearby. Can’t install a charging station where I live. I probably have 10 years of driving left so I will stick with an ICE.
Seems like a good plan that’s right for your situation, but for all of our future, I hope that’s rare ten years from now.
For anyone in their own house, where it’s pretty straightforward to install a charger …. It’s damn nice to never again have to go to a local refueling station. Recharging your car can be just like your phone: plug it in overnight and it’s just always full.
Yeah, it can be a bit less convenient on a road trip, but 95+% time, plugging into your home charger is more convenient
Nobody else makes an truck that isn’t obnoxiously large
Plenty of companies make them. They just aren’t allowed to sell them in the U.S. most of the time. And that should be changed.
Fuck them
The cybertruck can go, sure, but let the rest be
They can go whether the driver wants them to or not once the pedal is stuck down. (Unless they’ve been mildly dampened outside of car wash mode.)
Then by all means let them drive themselves right off a high cliff
While I like the idea, unfortuanlty, that is bad for the environment. We are better off driving them into recycling plants to put the battieires and other materials towards something useful.
True. I was just thinking of the least expensive option
You probably forgot about the Hummer.
Yeah i did heh.
You could easily argue the Hummer is symbolic of the problem with legacy manufacturer’s attempts at EVs, or at least the most extreme
Rather than create an EV anyone can afford, rather than design a vehicle around the needs of an EV, rather than care about any sort of efficiency …. Take a monster of excess and just keep adding thousands of pounds of batteries until it works. And you end up with more of a monster of excess: excessive price, excessive consumption of batteries/materials, excessive weight. You have a vehicle designed for people who values excess, made it even more excessive and expensive, and try to sell it to customers in the name of efficiency and reduced pollution. Of course it won’t work.
All that we want to do is see to it that we live another 100 years is that so god damn polarizing?!?!
But what if global warming is a hoax and we improve things for no reason?! /s
The weird part is, when you actually talk to a Conservative irl, they don’t care about EVs. Sure they might not like them—they might even think they’re a Political scheme or whatever. But they at least understand that there are more important things happening. Politicians failure to represent their user base’s viewpoint in the US is always astounding.
Why wouldn’t they? They are, after all, the craven whores who thirst for corporate donor cock.
Hey, I agree with the sentiment but sex work is a respectable job unlike being a crooked as shit congress person ruining the future of countless people :)
Also being a slut is a respectable job too, the world runs on sluts like me.
EVs are being built to save the car industry not the planet. I’ll probably get an electric vehicle once the kinks get worked out but I know how the materials are acquired and what happens when the batteries can’t hold a charge. It’s a baby step but definitely shouldn’t be stopped from evolving.
EV battery recycling is too valuable not to happen.
Sounds good doesn’t it
Surely the oil and energy companies have their own investments into renewables. I can’t imagine why Rs would die on this hill except for their little culture war.
Because you can’t corner the renewables market like the oil markets have been. Also oil dependence means a constant need for oil. Solar panels or windmills are much more install and forget. So yeah, they can invest in oil alternatives, but they won’t make nearly as much money from it.
Look up thos congresspersons’ donor history
Bet my bottom dollar they’re getting donations from groups that tie back to the auto industry
Get the fucking money out of politics
I’d argue the oil and gas industry, not auto. Lots of auto industry players like GM, Ford, Honda, Toyota are selling EV’s. There’s a market for them, people want them, there’s money on the table. Why would auto not want that.