Yeah, pretty much. The way the rest of the world deals with it is by splitting the infrastructure maintenance and retail sides to eliminate the profit incentive to not do maintenance.
You have a company who owns a/the fibre network in an area and is obligated by anti-monopoly rules to sell access to the network at the same rate and terms to anyone who wants it. They have a profit incentive to maintain the network to a reasonable standard because having a functioning network is how they make money. In a lot of places this wholesale provider will be at least part government owned given that the government usually pays a good chunk of the cost to build out large national infrastructure projects like fibre networks.
Separately, you have retail ISPs who buy access to the fibre network (or 4g, satellite, …) and sell it to the public along with value adds like tech support, IP addresses, peering agreement etc.
It’s never work in the US because holding private companies accountable for how they spend public money and maintaining well regulated competitive markets is communism or something.
It’s never work in the US because holding private companies accountable for how they spend public money and maintaining well regulated competitive markets is communism or something
It did work in the US for many years. During the 90’s the Internet was regulated like that. Phone lines, t1’s etc were infrastructure that the ilec was required to provide at the same cost to isps they used internally to sell service to consumers.
Then Bush came in and ruled that fiber and cable were immune from those common carrier laws.
Internet in NZ used to work a bit like the US does now with one large ISP that is also the network operator and gave exactly zero shits about quality of connections or internationally competitive pricing, except they got greedy and charged their retail arm half what they charged their competitors. Anti-monopoly folks got very pissy about this and managed to get the largest fine permitted by law, forced them to split their wholesale arm off into a separate company, banned them from tendering on the government-funded fibre network (which cost them literally billions of dollars) and then changed the law so that if they did it again there wouldn’t be a cap on the penalty they could impose.
In 20 years we went from ~35th of the 38 OECD countries in internet speed and accessibility to 9th. Markets only work long-term if you actually regulate them
It’s totally possible! I live in CO and Comcast had a legal monopoly per state law. Nobody else is allowed to compete with their cable service. But you know what isn’t cable? Fiber! A local broadband company just installed fiber in my neighborhood this spring. I signed up for $89/mo gigabit service, no data cap, no installation fees at all. Between when I signed up and when they turned on service, they upgraded my service to 1.2 gigabit, same monthly price, no cap, no commitment, no upsell (their only other service is rural satellite Internet).
I talked to the technician installing it and he said they aren’t getting any subsidies from anyone. Not the city, state, or fed. It’s simply economically viable to run new gigabit fiber for $89/mo. All it takes is a company that can make the initial infrastructure investment.
They probably kill off any agency who would protect your consumer rights, anyway. And redefine “broadband” as “you’ve got modem access, so stop whining”. And let the companies keep the subsidies they got for making the former broadband definition happen.
Based on Ajit Pai last time, there will be a significant rollback on consumer rights and protections. You can bet Starlink will get greenlit for anything they want though.
In all honesty and without any sarcasm that was obviously present in my previous comment, looking in at the US as an outsider, I don’t hold out much hope for America. It’s not just Team Trump, it’s the whole system. The previous lot weren’t much better (and often sometimes worse). Everything seems extremely polarised which will never pan out well. Big corporations seem to control everything (from internet and food to finance and pharma), there’s no free health care (a human right considered by many countries but viewed as communism by America). I could go on and on, but I would only sound unnecessarily negative. A good idea would be to get out and get off an obvious sinking ship. This is probably easier said than done, but there’s always a way. Don’t get me wrong, it’s not perfect elsewhere, but I think once the US collapses it’ll be a wake-up call for a lot of countries who will also have to adjust having relied so heavily on America through trade as well as culturally. If too big to fail was a real thing, then we wouldn’t have history books full of empires collapsing. With all sincerity, good luck.
The only hope I have is that the next generation will bring more love. There is a lot of disenfranchisement due to the changes over the last 40 years. The lasting effects of coal and steel work reduction, offshoring of jobs, minority rights improving, immigration changing demographics. All of these have been very strange and alarming for a lot of people my age and older. It’s all normal to my kids though.
You’re right tho. Empires rise and fall. The whole world is fucked if we’ve hit our peak.
Turkey (Asia Minor) reporting, it’s 1 Gbps unlimited for $25.
Hardcore capitalism bangs you hardcore for even human-right level things. Health, education and infrastructure should be the State’s responsibility, subventions doesn’t cut it.
In my country unlimited fiber was $6/mo. Imagine the shock when I moved to the US (also in Mountain View initially). Eventually I got AT&T fiber for “just” $40/month, but now I moved to an area outside their coverage and it’s back to Comcast :(
It’s definitely not going to happen in the next 4.5 years. Paying the extra for unlimited data is basically a must these days.
To make myself feel better about it, I try to use as much data as possible every month. Not because there’s actually a good reason for the data caps, but because I’m spending the money, so I might as well. My personal best so far is 7TB in a month 😂
Well, we’ve just crossed into what will be a third-phase Corporatocracy, and a Monopoly gamed service industry.
You have other options now that are not the usual players, but then you’re giving money to Starlink.
You have the option of organizing to create a local fiber concern as a public utility, but in a few months they’ll pass laws preventing that from ever happening.
Your best option on the Internet between is an unlimited cell plan and a hotspot, and it’s not a great option, but the competition is still so heavy that your bill won’t change. Higher latency, but probably decent throughput.
Idk about data caps, but I used to get 3MB/s and I had to be happy for it. Things are better.
I think because of recent programs new ISPs have popped up all over the USA. The IIJA invested in infrastructure and startups to increase number of servicers to areas with few to no providers.
So I guess it depends on which representatives we send to Congress and the White House.
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Yeah, pretty much. The way the rest of the world deals with it is by splitting the infrastructure maintenance and retail sides to eliminate the profit incentive to not do maintenance.
You have a company who owns a/the fibre network in an area and is obligated by anti-monopoly rules to sell access to the network at the same rate and terms to anyone who wants it. They have a profit incentive to maintain the network to a reasonable standard because having a functioning network is how they make money. In a lot of places this wholesale provider will be at least part government owned given that the government usually pays a good chunk of the cost to build out large national infrastructure projects like fibre networks.
Separately, you have retail ISPs who buy access to the fibre network (or 4g, satellite, …) and sell it to the public along with value adds like tech support, IP addresses, peering agreement etc.
It’s never work in the US because holding private companies accountable for how they spend public money and maintaining well regulated competitive markets is communism or something.
It did work in the US for many years. During the 90’s the Internet was regulated like that. Phone lines, t1’s etc were infrastructure that the ilec was required to provide at the same cost to isps they used internally to sell service to consumers.
Then Bush came in and ruled that fiber and cable were immune from those common carrier laws.
Internet in NZ used to work a bit like the US does now with one large ISP that is also the network operator and gave exactly zero shits about quality of connections or internationally competitive pricing, except they got greedy and charged their retail arm half what they charged their competitors. Anti-monopoly folks got very pissy about this and managed to get the largest fine permitted by law, forced them to split their wholesale arm off into a separate company, banned them from tendering on the government-funded fibre network (which cost them literally billions of dollars) and then changed the law so that if they did it again there wouldn’t be a cap on the penalty they could impose.
In 20 years we went from ~35th of the 38 OECD countries in internet speed and accessibility to 9th. Markets only work long-term if you actually regulate them
No, once the FTC is gutted, the isps will resume their stronghold. Data caps, overages, slower speeds, etc.
All of our FTC investigations and antitrust suits will disappear.
Also get ready of net neutrality disappearing, and you’ll have sites blocked just because of ISPs not liking them.
It’s totally possible! I live in CO and Comcast had a legal monopoly per state law. Nobody else is allowed to compete with their cable service. But you know what isn’t cable? Fiber! A local broadband company just installed fiber in my neighborhood this spring. I signed up for $89/mo gigabit service, no data cap, no installation fees at all. Between when I signed up and when they turned on service, they upgraded my service to 1.2 gigabit, same monthly price, no cap, no commitment, no upsell (their only other service is rural satellite Internet).
I talked to the technician installing it and he said they aren’t getting any subsidies from anyone. Not the city, state, or fed. It’s simply economically viable to run new gigabit fiber for $89/mo. All it takes is a company that can make the initial infrastructure investment.
They probably kill off any agency who would protect your consumer rights, anyway. And redefine “broadband” as “you’ve got modem access, so stop whining”. And let the companies keep the subsidies they got for making the former broadband definition happen.
Based on Ajit Pai last time, there will be a significant rollback on consumer rights and protections. You can bet Starlink will get greenlit for anything they want though.
Unlimited full fibre here in the rural nothern Highlands of Scotland for £35 per month.
Your internet seems similar to your politicians: useless and expensive.
I normally don’t like to admit this but you’re right. OP needs to move.
Unfortunately, most counties don’t want us Americans (and I don’t blame them).
Edit: Unless you’re rich that is.
In all honesty and without any sarcasm that was obviously present in my previous comment, looking in at the US as an outsider, I don’t hold out much hope for America. It’s not just Team Trump, it’s the whole system. The previous lot weren’t much better (and often sometimes worse). Everything seems extremely polarised which will never pan out well. Big corporations seem to control everything (from internet and food to finance and pharma), there’s no free health care (a human right considered by many countries but viewed as communism by America). I could go on and on, but I would only sound unnecessarily negative. A good idea would be to get out and get off an obvious sinking ship. This is probably easier said than done, but there’s always a way. Don’t get me wrong, it’s not perfect elsewhere, but I think once the US collapses it’ll be a wake-up call for a lot of countries who will also have to adjust having relied so heavily on America through trade as well as culturally. If too big to fail was a real thing, then we wouldn’t have history books full of empires collapsing. With all sincerity, good luck.
The only hope I have is that the next generation will bring more love. There is a lot of disenfranchisement due to the changes over the last 40 years. The lasting effects of coal and steel work reduction, offshoring of jobs, minority rights improving, immigration changing demographics. All of these have been very strange and alarming for a lot of people my age and older. It’s all normal to my kids though.
You’re right tho. Empires rise and fall. The whole world is fucked if we’ve hit our peak.
that’s one hell of a free burn
I pay $79 AUD for 250Mb download / 20Mb upload.
Turkey (Asia Minor) reporting, it’s 1 Gbps unlimited for $25.
Hardcore capitalism bangs you hardcore for even human-right level things. Health, education and infrastructure should be the State’s responsibility, subventions doesn’t cut it.
At this point, I wonder why people aren’t simply laying down cable between eachothers homes to create communitary networks.
Because thats not the internet, thats LAN
Make a large enough LAN and you get a small internet hub.
deleted by creator
That’s more c/usa tho (politics) and less c/technology.
Rural island off the coast of a european country:
10g fiber for $65/mo (I don’t even think they cared, I asked for more and I think they made up a number).
House literally down the street from google in silicon valley:
Comcrap $100 for shit cable, I’m paying $250 for actual upload speed.
This country is ruled by the corrupt.
In my country unlimited fiber was $6/mo. Imagine the shock when I moved to the US (also in Mountain View initially). Eventually I got AT&T fiber for “just” $40/month, but now I moved to an area outside their coverage and it’s back to Comcast :(
It’s definitely not going to happen in the next 4.5 years. Paying the extra for unlimited data is basically a must these days.
To make myself feel better about it, I try to use as much data as possible every month. Not because there’s actually a good reason for the data caps, but because I’m spending the money, so I might as well. My personal best so far is 7TB in a month 😂
1.9TB is our high and that’s with 2 adults and 3 data hungry kids. 7TB!? Good lord!
Wow, 7 TB in a month?
Slaps roof of internet router
You can fit a lot of Linux ISOs in that data cap!
So many Linux ISOs 😅 definitely not anything else.
Ziply fiber is awesome. Longshot, but you might want to check.
Well, we’ve just crossed into what will be a third-phase Corporatocracy, and a Monopoly gamed service industry.
You have other options now that are not the usual players, but then you’re giving money to Starlink.
You have the option of organizing to create a local fiber concern as a public utility, but in a few months they’ll pass laws preventing that from ever happening.
Your best option on the Internet between is an unlimited cell plan and a hotspot, and it’s not a great option, but the competition is still so heavy that your bill won’t change. Higher latency, but probably decent throughput.
You can’t feign growth without suppressing growth first
“I get like 120 Mbps max” Literally 5-10x faster than most internet in the UK, no datacaps here though.
are you sure youre not confusing Mbps and MB/s
Nah the UK uses megabits too, because inflating your percieved speeds eightfold is good marketing everywhere.
Idk about data caps, but I used to get 3MB/s and I had to be happy for it. Things are better.
I think because of recent programs new ISPs have popped up all over the USA. The IIJA invested in infrastructure and startups to increase number of servicers to areas with few to no providers.
So I guess it depends on which representatives we send to Congress and the White House.